The game really comes down to levels of ability. If everyone wants a game where you can play to the players of your own ability then its time the community stands up and state that!

Levels is not a bad thing, there are more novice players than hardcore, and if you put them in the same group this game will never survive!

I say let the novice players play at this level and give us hardcore players something to test.

As for the true swing add the slider bar at novice levels to make up for the 3-click advantage and give my true swing friends something to test at the hardcore level. Then lets go from there.

You cant have experts playing against novice and expect either one to stick around.

We're used to having 4 levels but now you give us one. I say come up with at least three 3-click and three TS.

Let us Decide what method is right for us. As for Career make the player start at the lowest level and then grow to the hardest level. If someone refuses to level up they have to play in a tournament that is there for players that like scoring 20 under plus scores. Some people would say that 68 is a good score.

My point is, some people just wont level up leaving nothing for the new guys and gals that would love to compete against there friends and or possible new friends.

True Swing should be like TW8 . right now it is not based on how fast forward you bring the club.

Greg,

I think the game mechanics are fine. In other words, I don't think the problem lies with the swing itself. I think the problem lies with the attributes given to players.

Let me explain. This is going to be long. For the purpose of this article, I am going to use 3-click as an example.

I believe that the 3-click meter should stay exactly the same, whether you're playing as an Amateur or a Tour Pro. It should not be sped-up. The sweet spot should not change. What I mean is, the swing mechanic should not change at all between player levels.

Furthermore, things like wind and ball lie should also not change. For example, if you play in calm winds at *. Andrews, the wind should effect Amateur players and Tour Pro Players in the same way. After all, the wind isn't what's different . . it's the skill level of the player. By the same token, you can use this same formula when it comes to ball lie. If an Amateur is stuck in deep rough, he is no better off than a Tour Pro that is stuck in the deep rough. They are both experiencing the same difficult lie, and both would experience the same challenge in getting out of it.

However, the Amateur would certainly have a tougher time dealing with the wind and a tougher time dealing with bad lies. Meanwhile, a Tour Pro would have the experience to better deal with these situation.

The two paragraphs above explain my main point of concern for Tiger Woods Online. Simply put, an Amateur golfer should not be able to score anywhere near the score a Tour Pro could shoot at, say, *. Andrews (with both playing in the same conditions). The Tour Pro, with his experience and savvy, should absolutely shoot better scores than the Amateur golfer.

In other words, I think the game's skill levels are backwards. Amateur golfers should have a tougher time on the course than a Tour Pro. The round that an Amateur shoots should not be anywhere near what a Tour Pro can shoot. If a Tour Pro shoots -5 at Sawgrass, it stands to reason that an Amateur would not be able to shoot -10 while playing in the exact same conditions. The Amateur should be shooting, in most cases, +10 at best. As it is, there is really no incentive to become a Tour Pro. You can shoot much better as an Amateur. This should not be! As I said, the skill levels are somewhat backwards.

But as I said, the swing mechanics (swing meter) should not be changed. However, what should be changed is the variables attached to the swing itself.

For example, let's say I am an Amateur golfer - and I am standing at a 130 yard Par 3 hole. I whip out my 9 iron and make my shot. The problem is that the 9 iron has a pre-determined maximum distance in Tiger Woods Online. So, if I hit my swing perfectly, I have a pretty good idea exactly where the ball is going to go.

The problem is, there's no such thing as a perfect swing in golf. I might think I've hit the ball perfectly, only to wonder Hey, how did my ball get over there!. As an Amateur these types of shots would be more likely to occur. I might hit my 9 iron too far. Or too short. I might not have put the right amount of spin on the ball.

So, how do you re-create this in-game? You put a variable in that randomizes a part of the swing. In other words, if I hit the sweet spot while playing as an Amateur, the game may still penalize me by making the ball not travel quite the distance I had intended. It might also add a draw or fade that I had not intended. Let's face it, there are far too many perfect shots in Tiger Woods Online.

Now, as one advances through the game, they can use the swing tuner to lessen the randomness of aspects of their swing. Furthermore, they can purchase items from the Pro Shop that will give slight attributes to their gear. Notice I said slight? If you boost attributes too much, as they are now, it takes the course completely out of play.

Let me explain this previous statement. There are not many golfers who can hit 350 yard drives at any PGA event. So, why would it be so easy to do this in Tiger Woods Online? By hitting extremely long drives, one is able to bypass some of the nuances of the golf course design. The courses in Tiger Woods Online are at the mercy of the player . . which, again, is backwards.

Sure, there are golfers who are long-hitters. But their accuracy might suffer for their length. My point here is that there are very, very few golfers who are strong in every aspect of the game. For example, a long-hitter may not have the best short game.

Again, this points toward variables. In Tiger Woods Online, the Swing Tuner is almost like you're taking a golf lesson to improve your performance. Well, if you spend money to learn "more swing power", doesn't it stand to reason that you would have to spend the same amount of money to learn "more accuracy"? After all, anyone can swing hard . . . it's swing and not missing that's important! Furthermore, if you spend money to learn better Power and Accuracy, wouldn't it stand to reason that perhaps your Putting or your Short Game attributes would automatically be lowered? After all, you didn't spend the time and money on them.

Keep in mind that when a player's attributes are increased or decreased, these should be done so in moderation. If I add to power, I don't want to see 100 yards added to my drives. When I train Power, all it should do is sway the random variables I spoke of earlier in my favor. It should not add distance to my shots, it should simply make me more adept at hitting the ball the expected distance. If I train accuracy, it should sway the variable that causes draws and fades so that I get more of a chance that my ball will go closer to my intended target.

As I stated earlier, the Pro Shop is where you will buy items that will perhaps add overall distance to your drives etc. However, a word of caution, these distance increases should be realistic! For example, if someone buys a golf ball with a +5 distance on it . . . this +5 should not make someone with a 269 yard driving average suddenly able to hit the ball 300 yards. Furthermore, it stands to reason that if you add power, you will lose something else (most likely accuracy). So, if a golf ball is in the Pro Shop with +5 Power, it stands to reason that it would also show -2 Accuracy.

These are just a few ideas that could make Tiger Woods Online a great game. Again, I honestly feel that Amateur golfers should not score anywhere near as well as Tour Pro golfers. In addition, while Tour Pro golfers are absolutely more adept at every aspect of the game when compared to Amateur golfers, the Tour Pro's are not perfect, and there absolutely need to be variables added that add slight modifications to expected results.

Tiger Woods Online needs to more of a challenge. I think you will find that people will be much more open to a challenge, and the sense of accomplishment at defeating these challenges will be doubly rewarding.

Hello, game is coming on good, I think you should be allowed to tick what playing options you want eg green grid, putt preview etc My friends and I play alot of tw08 in novice level but would love the lie of the land to affect shot rather than go to intermediate, removing green grid and wind indicator is just stupid you cant guage this like real golf, most important to increase difficulty would to make sure everyon playing online has the same club distance and make the clubs go less distance 350 yard drives are just stupid

cem_ea_id.Wrenn64 wrote:Greg,

I think the game mechanics are fine. In other words, I don't think the problem lies with the swing itself. I think the problem lies with the attributes given to players.

Let me explain. This is going to be long. For the purpose of this article, I am going to use 3-click as an example.

I believe that the 3-click meter should stay exactly the same, whether you're playing as an Amateur or a Tour Pro. It should not be sped-up. The sweet spot should not change. What I mean is, the swing mechanic should not change at all between player levels.

Furthermore, things like wind and ball lie should also not change. For example, if you play in calm winds at *. Andrews, the wind should effect Amateur players and Tour Pro Players in the same way. After all, the wind isn't what's different . . it's the skill level of the player. By the same token, you can use this same formula when it comes to ball lie. If an Amateur is stuck in deep rough, he is no better off than a Tour Pro that is stuck in the deep rough. They are both experiencing the same difficult lie, and both would experience the same challenge in getting out of it.

However, the Amateur would certainly have a tougher time dealing with the wind and a tougher time dealing with bad lies. Meanwhile, a Tour Pro would have the experience to better deal with these situation.

The two paragraphs above explain my main point of concern for Tiger Woods Online. Simply put, an Amateur golfer should not be able to score anywhere near the score a Tour Pro could shoot at, say, *. Andrews (with both playing in the same conditions). The Tour Pro, with his experience and savvy, should absolutely shoot better scores than the Amateur golfer.

In other words, I think the game's skill levels are backwards. Amateur golfers should have a tougher time on the course than a Tour Pro. The round that an Amateur shoots should not be anywhere near what a Tour Pro can shoot. If a Tour Pro shoots -5 at Sawgrass, it stands to reason that an Amateur would not be able to shoot -10 while playing in the exact same conditions. The Amateur should be shooting, in most cases, +10 at best. As it is, there is really no incentive to become a Tour Pro. You can shoot much better as an Amateur. This should not be! As I said, the skill levels are somewhat backwards.

But as I said, the swing mechanics (swing meter) should not be changed. However, what should be changed is the variables attached to the swing itself.

For example, let's say I am an Amateur golfer - and I am standing at a 130 yard Par 3 hole. I whip out my 9 iron and make my shot. The problem is that the 9 iron has a pre-determined maximum distance in Tiger Woods Online. So, if I hit my swing perfectly, I have a pretty good idea exactly where the ball is going to go.

The problem is, there's no such thing as a perfect swing in golf. I might think I've hit the ball perfectly, only to wonder Hey, how did my ball get over there!. As an Amateur these types of shots would be more likely to occur. I might hit my 9 iron too far. Or too short. I might not have put the right amount of spin on the ball.

So, how do you re-create this in-game? You put a variable in that randomizes a part of the swing. In other words, if I hit the sweet spot while playing as an Amateur, the game may still penalize me by making the ball not travel quite the distance I had intended. It might also add a draw or fade that I had not intended. Let's face it, there are far too many perfect shots in Tiger Woods Online.

Now, as one advances through the game, they can use the swing tuner to lessen the randomness of aspects of their swing. Furthermore, they can purchase items from the Pro Shop that will give slight attributes to their gear. Notice I said slight? If you boost attributes too much, as they are now, it takes the course completely out of play.

Let me explain this previous statement. There are not many golfers who can hit 350 yard drives at any PGA event. So, why would it be so easy to do this in Tiger Woods Online? By hitting extremely long drives, one is able to bypass some of the nuances of the golf course design. The courses in Tiger Woods Online are at the mercy of the player . . which, again, is backwards.

Sure, there are golfers who are long-hitters. But their accuracy might suffer for their length. My point here is that there are very, very few golfers who are strong in every aspect of the game. For example, a long-hitter may not have the best short game.

Again, this points toward variables. In Tiger Woods Online, the Swing Tuner is almost like you're taking a golf lesson to improve your performance. Well, if you spend money to learn "more swing power", doesn't it stand to reason that you would have to spend the same amount of money to learn "more accuracy"? After all, anyone can swing hard . . . it's swing and not missing that's important! Furthermore, if you spend money to learn better Power and Accuracy, wouldn't it stand to reason that perhaps your Putting or your Short Game attributes would automatically be lowered? After all, you didn't spend the time and money on them.

Keep in mind that when a player's attributes are increased or decreased, these should be done so in moderation. If I add to power, I don't want to see 100 yards added to my drives. When I train Power, all it should do is sway the random variables I spoke of earlier in my favor. It should not add distance to my shots, it should simply make me more adept at hitting the ball the expected distance. If I train accuracy, it should sway the variable that causes draws and fades so that I get more of a chance that my ball will go closer to my intended target.

As I stated earlier, the Pro Shop is where you will buy items that will perhaps add overall distance to your drives etc. However, a word of caution, these distance increases should be realistic! For example, if someone buys a golf ball with a +5 distance on it . . . this +5 should not make someone with a 269 yard driving average suddenly able to hit the ball 300 yards. Furthermore, it stands to reason that if you add power, you will lose something else (most likely accuracy). So, if a golf ball is in the Pro Shop with +5 Power, it stands to reason that it would also show -2 Accuracy.

These are just a few ideas that could make Tiger Woods Online a great game. Again, I honestly feel that Amateur golfers should not score anywhere near as well as Tour Pro golfers. In addition, while Tour Pro golfers are absolutely more adept at every aspect of the game when compared to Amateur golfers, the Tour Pro's are not perfect, and there absolutely need to be variables added that add slight modifications to expected results.

Tiger Woods Online needs to more of a challenge. I think you will find that people will be much more open to a challenge, and the sense of accomplishment at defeating these challenges will be doubly rewarding.

Very good post

there are no levels in this game,there is no Amateur or Pro level,you may choose to play different tournaments levels but the game plays the same in all of them,the only thing that is different is the tees and the conditions,
I think as you gain length with your clubs the sweetspot should get smaller and longer clubs should have an even smaller sweetspot,in real golf most people have no problem hitting from lets say wedge to 6 iron,after that things start getting harder,long iron( 3,2,1) are hardest to hit in the sweetspot,most players have never carried a 1 or 2 iron because they are so hard to hit,same with woods ,even for pro`s, Tiger has problems with his driver from time to time,more problems than any other club in his bag( excluding the putter).

cem_ea_id.CarnoustieTW wrote:there are no levels in this game,there is no Amateur or Pro level,you may choose to play different tournaments levels but the game plays the same in all of them,the only thing that is different is the tees and the conditions,
I think as you gain length with your clubs the sweetspot should get smaller and longer clubs should have an even smaller sweetspot,in real golf most people have no problem hitting from lets say wedge to 6 iron,after that things start getting harder,long iron( 3,2,1) are hardest to hit in the sweetspot,most players have never carried a 1 or 2 iron because they are so hard to hit,same with woods ,even for pro`s, Tiger has problems with his driver from time to time,more problems than any other club in his bag( excluding the putter).

Ian,

There are levels in the tournaments. I do believe there should be skill levels in the game, with natural and automatic progression as soon as you earn enough "points" to advance.

Right now the game is no challenge whatsoever, and offers me zero reason to subscribe to it. I can find a better golf challenge on my iTouch. This is not meant to be a flame toward EA. It is simply a fact-based statement. I sincerely hope they realize that the game's ease-of-play is not a "feature" that they should be proud of.

I agree with the easy play of the game, I just tried TS for the first time and was amazed at how easy it played. I didn't score well but I hit my shots a lot straighter then any other TS I have tried and didn't have a problem hitting 100% shots. I was playing as Tiger as I wanted to try all shots. I agree with the comments that the sweet spot needs to get smaller as you progress up.

cem_ea_id.kdw845 wrote:I agree with the easy play of the game, I just tried TS for the first time and was amazed at how easy it played. I didn't score well but I hit my shots a lot straighter then any other TS I have tried and didn't have a problem hitting 100% shots. I was playing as Tiger as I wanted to try all shots. I agree with the comments that the sweet spot needs to get smaller as you progress up.

Kevin, I hear what you're saying, and I have to agree,,,,,, hitting straight is just too easy. Having said that, try using TS in a touring Pro tourney and tell me what your impression is...............

I have to agree with Ian on this one, the sweet spot really needs to be smaller for both swings.........

Played TS on a touring pro tournament as my player, I did play a touring pro round as Tiger earlier, still didn't score well but still hit the ball fairly straight and I wonder about the putting aid making the putting a little easier then it should be. I don't think that line should be there, it really helps you control distance. That has probably already been mentioned as a feature that should be an option to be turned off. Chipping or pitching is easier then I thought it would be and the % aid at the pin gives you some indication of how long a backswing and how hard to hit the ball. I can see if there was more difficulty in hitting the ball straight and the aids turned off TS would be a real challenge, then take away the grid and add some cameras and I believe TS is good. But I have always been a 3-clicker so my interpretation of TS may not be a fair evaluation.

I have no idea how I never saw this thread. This is most important thread in the whole forums.

This is the one thing that might prevent me from purchasing this game. The lack of real skill levels, and the fact that there is no level that is even remotely challanging. I shot 10-15 under on Tour Pro tournament, and usually only play 1 -2 rounds a day. I will admit that I am a 3 clicker, I have been since Links was sold on 3.5's, so I don't feel like changing.

Anyway back to the point. Here's my short list of how to make this game more realistic, and level the scores out.

1. No Putt preview in tournaments period. Or any rounds that count on your stats. Putt preview should be practice
only.

2. The 3 click meter is way to easy. The straight short area should be 1 pixel wide, that's it. Anything left goes left, anything right goes right. The more you miss the further off line it goes. Not hitting the ball perfect on every single shot will help scores tremendously. Someone is going to say that that makes it to hard for new comers. let me tell you, I have been gaming for 20 years. Regardless of how hard it is someone either likes your game, and will figure it out, or they are going to leave anyways. Counter Strike is hard as hell to become good at, but it will alwalys be one of the most played online games because its a good game. Do you know any really big online games that are easy? This isn't the Wii this is PC gaming, the customer base is way different. The average player that stays more than 1 year will be 35 + which is twice the age of you regular game audience. The 16 year olds will be gone to the next big game regardless of what you do. If EA actually figures out how to keep 16 year olds playing a golf game for any amount of time they will leave the gaming industry all together and they will open up childrens hospitals all over the world, with the cure to A.D.D. It would be a happy day for parents everywhere, but suck for gaming. (yes I do have kids)

3. Lie indicaters. Are way to accurate. If you hit the ball in the ruff in real life, sure the ruff usually requires an extra club. But, you still never know where that ball is going to go. It comes out left, right, high, low, It can even go father that usual (flyier lie anyone?) The indicaters should stay the same, but the chances of something bad happening should go way up. I should not be able to stick it every time from 100 yrds by just using a 8-9 iron instead of a wedge.

4. Variable wind. I think the wind should have the option of changing direction, or even stop blowing all together while the ball is in the air. The pros deal with it, and we should too.

5. Not sure what the fix is, but pitching is way to easy. I pitch in at least 2-3 shots in a round. One of those is probably outa the ruff. Pro's pitch, and chip in once or twice in a 4 round tournament.

Sorry for the rant on line 2. A little outa control there, but either way I hope this helps.

I have noticed that the computer handicaps your game...if you go and play gold tees and lower your average to say 51 or 52 and then play tournament? the computer will reward you..however, if your average increases to a higher number (56 or 57) the computer will not give you the shots you got before...the problem with computer golf is, you have to learn to play the computer and not the (golf) game. So, if you're geek! You will do better than the average duck.

Maybe there is an easy answer to all the meter, grid, etc settings. Make it possible for the player to turn ooff/on these settings. some of us are too old or just simply handicaped to play the pro tour as it is now. I say just let EA continue to built the best golf game out there and stop worrying about someone using all the settings available just make oneself good enough to play with the "experts"

I just checked the PGA driving stats. The top five are averaging 297-301 yds. On TWO we have 400+ yds. Does this make a difference? YES. Unless there is an extreme in wind conditions or elevation these 400+ yds. are unrealistic! If you are routinely putting for eagle on par 4's there is something wrong with the dynamics of the game. A lot of the ridiculously low scores stem from this one problem. Maybe a cap should be put on driving attributes so that the most you could achieve is what the tour players average on level fairways, calm wind, and dry fairways? This one thing would level the playing field considerably. The rest would depend on skill. It would make the game more challenging to have to hit a second shot into the par 4's.

cem_ea_id.sashadoc wrote:I just checked the PGA driving stats. The top five are averaging 297-301 yds. On TWO we have 400+ yds. Does this make a difference? YES. Unless there is an extreme in wind conditions or elevation these 400+ yds. are unrealistic! If you are routinely putting for eagle on par 4's there is something wrong with the dynamics of the game. A lot of the ridiculously low scores stem from this one problem. Maybe a cap should be put on driving attributes so that the most you could achieve is what the tour players average on level fairways, calm wind, and dry fairways? This one thing would level the playing field considerably. The rest would depend on skill. It would make the game more challenging to have to hit a second shot into the par 4's.

I think you will find the average in the game on level fairways, calm wind, and dry fairways is under 310yds,the 400+yds you quote is with the highest winds,downwind with lightning fairways and a big elevation change,I dont think a cap would make much difference as we are only talking about a 10yd difference at most.
The low scores come from players that are using 15 putt previews,I have played several MP rounds with some of the low score guys with putt previews off and they dont score anywhere near -21,-11 to -13( which is still to low IMHO).