The Masters

The game should be left the way it is if you dont want holeouts and a struggle to par stick it on tour pro randon weather breezy winds . Most gamers like me want holeouts and fun when i swicth on hence the reason 80% play it on ametuermode online ,if it gets to serious why bother plying a vid game just go and play real golf all alterartions should be in tour pro the current game engine is fine,wat we want is better 1080p grafics more coarses we dont have to pay for, more coarses outside america, and a coarse editor where u can upload your own home made coarses,a random 9 hole option for bestball and alt ,and the abilit to walk to the next tee would be cool .

ps mike 80% on these forums are tour pro players so your not getting a genuin view of the tw comunity when u read here if you listen to these and change things accordindly you risk losing thousands of customers.One day you should check your server stats to find out acutually how many games of tour pro were hosted compared to ametuer in one day mabye 10 to 1 i would guess .As the game stands at present we can make it as easy (sawgrass white tees calm winds ametuer mode ) or as hard as we want (pinhurst blk tees gales force raining tour pro) so why change it?

edited so many times cause my spelling sukks

Mike,I think the landing needs to be more like in real golf.
What I mean is that a Tour Pro is much more accurate with a wedge in his hand than a 2 iron.

That being taken into account the game should be similar.
If we are going by an aiming circle than let's say we make the circle for a wedge be 10 yds across and when you hit it will land somewhere in that area.
If you hit a short iron the circle gets a bit bigger,say 15 yds across.
The middle and long irons would have progressively bigger circles.
Even if the long irons had a circle 25 yds across the farthest you'd be from the hole would be about 36 feet or so.
If you notice the circles already do this.As your attribute gets higher the circles get smaller.It just has no effect in game play.

If you watch the pros shoot how many times have you seen them hit and just look down in disgust or sit there begging the ball to land and stop in the right spot.With some sort of randomness this could be approximated.

Of course this doesn't account for wind,mishits,etc...


P.S. I think a discussion about the wind would be for another topic.It has it's own issues.

I feel that Epic-UK has a very valid point concerning the number of Amateur players vs. TP players. You see this with the online PvP games (maybe 10 to 1 is right), and the number of players for the TP vs. Amateur Live Tournies (4 or 5 to 1).

Adding randomness for landing your shot within the landing circle should be implemented for Tour Pro mode, and maybe by varying degrees to the lower skill levels, with the easiest level barely or maybe rarely random.

Like SuperSenator said the size of your aiming circle should decrease with the length of your club, AND the skill level of the shot you are attempting. This last item being whatever skills are implemented whether the current driving, accuracy, and short game skills, or more granular skills that might include skill level by shot type in addition to and/or in place of the current skills.

Let's not forget the primary reason why a "random landing area" is necessary -- 3rd party controllers, modded controllers, keyboards, etc.. If every player was forced to play with a standard 360 controller or PS3 controller, hole-outs would be far, far less common. That is the truth.

As it is, this game is pretty well designed (difficulty-wise) if all players used an average-sensitivity, standard controller. Very interesting that the game needs an overhaul in design to thwart the "precision" controllers (which is what... 5% of users?). But, something has to be done... seeing 4 aces, and 2 double eagles in one round of a Live Tournament is ridiculous.

Interestingly, in online (peer-2-peer) matches, I see an avg of about 1 hole-out per 9 holes in team based matches. This is playing players of skill levels 10-15. I'm sure players in the skill level 20s hole-out at a higher rate. So, it's the Live Tournaments, with zero winds, where the issue of "random landing area" has it's place.

That said, I really like this idea:

xbox.Baali wrote:I agree with someone up there, a work around will be found, and quickly, but what in my opinion would help increase difficulty, have wind grades, no mph stuff, calm, 0-5 breezy 6-10 don't say the mph, just say, it windy with arrow pointing west, or up or down, if i dont know the exact wind, i cant dial in the shot, gimme exact wind, hell i don't care 35 at 8 oclock i can tell you exactly what club to hit to go pin high, but if it says windy down... could be a 20 could be a 26, big difference.... that would increase randomness.

And, I love this idea:

cem_ea_id.Supersenator wrote:Mike,I think the landing needs to be more like in real golf.
What I mean is that a Tour Pro is much more accurate with a wedge in his hand than a 2 iron.

That being taken into account the game should be similar.
If we are going by an aiming circle than let's say we make the circle for a wedge be 10 yds across and when you hit it will land somewhere in that area.
If you hit a short iron the circle gets a bit bigger,say 15 yds across.
The middle and long irons would have progressively bigger circles.
Even if the long irons had a circle 25 yds across the farthest you'd be from the hole would be about 36 feet or so.
If you notice the circles already do this.As your attribute gets higher the circles get smaller.It just has no effect in game play.

i would say the game is great as is.

but, the random landing area mentioned should be tied to your accuracy or some type of stat. the higher the stat the less random or something like that. a 12 skill attribute would, generally (but not every time) get it close to the center of the circle. a 6 skill attribute player would have a larger chance to hit more to the outside of the circle. a 12 player could do this, but a lot less likely.

if you dont currently like the hole outs then play with breezy or something. like someone above said.

or make a hard core mode that has all of this where there is no landing circle, no percentages, no preview, no telling of the wind (kinda what was mentioned earlier as calm, reezy, windy, so you dont know a 1,2,3,4,5,6, etc...) i would actually play this mode. i really dislike the extreme (with the wind being most of the variance) as that would never really happen.

If you going to have attribute system, then I say yes, the higher your accuracy the smaller the circle, also on Tour level dont give us so much info., just say the wind is calm from the NE or breezy from the S.In the rough or sand dont give us a % just show us are lie & let us guess.

Randomnes in where the ball lands would best be set by minor variations to the flight path at the swings point of impact. Ground and wind effect this too but it all starts with small swing variances. Even with a perfect controller swing expect the club to go through the ball a little different each time. There are no exactly repeatable tee or approach shots.

there is almost no point in discussing anything about this game until its "cut in half"

First:

Divide the game completely in TWO, Amateur and TourPro.

if you enter TourPro, there is no Amateur-lobby, no Amateur leaderboards,
there are no amateur tourneys to enter,
there is no tuned clubs, your suit is gone, there is no green grid,
you dont get excact wind, you dont get excact rough or sand %, there is no power or spin,
your attributes are your TourPro attributes.
this is the real deal, you have now entered the TOURPRO section of TW11.

in this section of TW11 there are some significant changes.
among other things you got the "random landing area" much like Supersenator's suggestion.
maby the circles have larger diameters and even flicker a bit due to the winds (or your mental attribute).

let the arcadeplayers have their fun, of course!
but there is only now we can start discussing what ppl want,
what would you like to se in TourPro? What would you like to see in Amateur?

separate lobbyrooms are key
separate leaderboards is key
separate attributes are key


a splitting of the game itself are key.

A thought just occurred to me while watching the final round of the Tour Championship on TV.

Isn't the shot zoom camera where we can telescope our landing area from the tee box to the fairway or from the fairway to the green more responsible for the low scoring we are being asked to remedy with suggestions about how to introduce a random element to the ball landing?

Honestly, with the zoom camera you can select where you want to be and pretty much get there. Granted there are elements that aid in the process like the in game feature club tuning and aftermarket products that assist in making the club tuner god-like.

Why, instead of possibly re-writing a significant portion of the game, don't we get what the players on the Tour have, which is, essentially, a first person view of a target area and a general idea of where one wants to be in relation to that target area during set-up and execution of a shot. Hit the shot and let us only see the ball like how the pros see it...from behind with no idea what happens when it gets out to maximum club distance.

Wouldn't this idea get rid of the need to introduce random elements for ball landing?

I have been playing this game before it was called Tiger Woods and was on Sega. I bought TW 10 becasue the idea of playing in online tournaments was very interesting. When I get there, people shoot -28. I won't play. I do not even understand how you shoot that. I do use a standard controller and can shoot in the low fifties at best. In the end, I have no interest in playing the game where scoring -28 is possible. The writer who claims everyone would quit is an idiot. way more people would play if it simulated real tournament scoring(video game ease added in, say -15 is a truly great round)

Shot zoom is fine, tour pros have a lot of accurate information available when setting up a shot it just takes some time to pace it off and check the yard books. Don't slow the game down if it's commodity info lime distance to hazard then give it to us instantly, though I could see just an overhead analysis so we have to navigate intermediate trees, etc without the zoom

cem_ea_id.BiOoOHazard wrote:there is almost no point in discussing anything about this game until its "cut in half"

First:

Divide the game completely in TWO, Amateur and TourPro.

if you enter TourPro, there is no Amateur-lobby, no Amateur leaderboards,
there are no amateur tourneys to enter,
there is no tuned clubs, your suit is gone, there is no green grid,
you dont get excact wind, you dont get excact rough or sand %, there is no power or spin,
your attributes are your TourPro attributes.
this is the real deal, you have now entered the TOURPRO section of TW11.

in this section of TW11 there are some significant changes.
among other things you got the "random landing area" much like Supersenator's suggestion.
maby the circles have larger diameters and even flicker a bit due to the winds (or your mental attribute).

let the arcadeplayers have their fun, of course!
but there is only now we can start discussing what ppl want,
what would you like to se in TourPro? What would you like to see in Amateur?

separate lobbyrooms are key
separate leaderboards is key
separate attributes are key


a splitting of the game itself are key.

Thats a terrible idea. There are some that like both modes.

I agree with motion the WHOLE game needs to be changed not just Tour pro

ps3.SwAeromotion wrote:
Thats a terrible idea. There are some that like both modes.

exactly!

edit: i mean yes?... i like both... if you want to play amateur, you go to the amateur section,
if you want to play TourPro, you go there... shouldnt be any problem?

Alright...good discussion guys, although we're straying off the central topic at times Sounds like a feature that would be best suited for Tour Pro and toned down considerably for the other difficulty settings. I like the idea of tuning it per club as well.

Someone in this thread said it best I think when he spoke about the outcome of the "perfect swing". Even if Tiger hit the ball "perfectly" 20 times in a row, it would land within a certain pattern, not in the same location 20 times. The idea is to mimic this effect of human nature that nobody can hit it perfectly every time. This idea revolves less around making the game more difficult and more around making the player use more strategic golf decisions. So the player may choose to lay up and play it safe instead of bombing it out of the rough with a 2I. That way they would have a more accurate approach to the green and a better chance at par or birdie.

I am glad to see the discussion taking both sides of the fence here. The casual players need to make their presence felt in these forums. We understand that the majority of the posters here are hard core guys, but they consitently take the time to come here and give their feedback. So we listen. I would encourage the casual players to do the same, since without your voice, we do not know what you are looking for in the game.

Keep the ideas coming guys, this is great stuff!