First of all I appreciate your effort (zerk16) in making intelligent, rational, and understandable posts. I fully understand your point of view on this issue.

Although DICE has the talent to make a great engine and all, they lack the skill to design a game, gameplay wise. The taking away of prone b/c of snipers being hidden too well shows this very well. They obviously could not find ways in which to reduce the power of the recon class as a whole in order to be able to include prone, something that MANY players are complaining about not being included in the game.

I wouldn't mind if they split the class into two classes. One would be the so called "invisible sniper" with a deadly sniper rifle (1 shot kill) and the ability to become nearly undetectable to the normal foot soldier while having its proper counter.

The other would be the able to call in nukes from the skies equipped with their light assault rifle and some other ability; perhaps the ability to mark targets via commands so that enemies are visible to friendlies within range, but I hope they would be able to craft up something better with our ideas since they're the professionals.

And by the way, we all know war is not "fair," but for christ's sake think about it, it's a freaking game people. I don't want to waste anymore time explaining this very simple concept.

>
> > DRAINAGE....DRAINAGE....Zerk you boy.
> >
> > Hey....if you have a milkshake and I have a
> > milkshake, and I have a straw. This is the
> straw, and
> > I take it way way over here. Then I bring it way
> on
> > back until it lands in your milkshake...
> >
> > I....DRINK....YOUR.....MILKSHAKE. I DRINK IT
> UP.
> >
> > Message was edited by: Emperor Sulla
> (EA.com)
>
> what the....?

THERE WILL BE BLOOD

watch it and learn

Somebody at DICE better contact IW quick and explain how prone snipers, WITHOUT a red dot over the head, will unbalance a game by making snipers waaaay too powerful.

Oh wait, never mind.

COD4 snipers work just fine with prone intact and NO stupid red dot.

So sorry, DICE, try another explanation. This one just doesn't hold water given reality's "bias" against your arguement, i.e. other games include prone without a hitch.

Maybe as others have suggested DICE was having problems with hit boxes or clipping issues with prone figures. Another balance issue could be the fact that BFBC's snipers are better than any other class in CQB and close-medium range combat since the other weapons fire foam nerf darts while the snipers are largely one-hit-one kill.


God I'd love a job at DICE! Where else could you mess up so much and still keep your job? Gotta love the game industry!

Well, what I think:

Why would the sniper be to powerfull?

All classes will be able to get invisible in the grass by proning, not just the recon / sniper

And still, if they lay down, I think they will almost see nothing more but gras. Or they must lay on a rock??

Still cod4 can do it, and BF2, so why not BFBC?

> Somebody at DICE better contact IW quick and explain
> how prone snipers, WITHOUT a red dot over the head,
> will unbalance a game by making snipers waaaay too
> powerful.
>
> Oh wait, never mind.
>
> COD4 snipers work just fine with prone intact and NO
> stupid red dot.
>
> So sorry, DICE, try another explanation. This one
> just doesn't hold water given reality's "bias"
> against your arguement, i.e. other games include
> prone without a hitch.
>
> Maybe as others have suggested DICE was having
> problems with hit boxes or clipping issues with prone
> figures. Another balance issue could be the fact
> that BFBC's snipers are better than any other class
> in CQB and close-medium range combat since the other
> weapons fire foam nerf darts while the snipers are
> largely one-hit-one kill.
>
>
> God I'd love a job at DICE! Where else could you
> mess up so much and still keep your job? Gotta love
> the game industry!

LMAO MajOr_Blunder, that was a fun, logical and right on message reply IMO, what you eluted to on all fronts makes nothing but sense IMO

It's all about what is logically fair, what features or actions make sense balance or not when it comes to developing a military game with any hope of realism?
War is war and to not give every soldier the ability to go prone is just flat out stupid and unrealistic IMO

LMAO with the DICE job thing man, I guess DICE job security depends on if you don't have a clue about what makes a game realistic or not LOL

Good job.

> Well, what I think:
>
> Why would the sniper be to powerfull?
>
> All classes will be able to get invisible in the
> grass by proning, not just the recon / sniper
>
> And still, if they lay down, I think they will almost
> see nothing more but gras. Or they must lay on a
> rock??
>
> Still cod4 can do it, and BF2, so why not BFBC?

Right on marine, I agree with you about why is any soldier to powerful or matter of fact why any piece of equipment or whatever might be deemed to powerful, is a tank to powerful? or the ability to call in artillery to powerful? I wouldn't think so, unless you're a run and gun only thinker?

This is nothing more than a jive mentality way of forcing a fast action form of atmosphere on users, some of us who like to think or set strategies IMO, they're going to take away one of the most realistic fun and useful actions a soldier has and that is the ability to make a combat choice of avoiding a hit and or getting killed, I mean come on, even a Medic should have the right and ability to Go Prone right!

Message was edited by: FATT47 (EA.com)

Still trying to use logic in an attempt to persuade Dice in implementing prone? Or are you just wasting alot of time running your mouth? What is the objective? The only one way to prove EA we mean business is by boycott, otherwise you're just wasting your time, Bub.

everyone seems to be forgetting, also, that this is not BF2 with 64 player maps. These are 12v12 maps, and the last thing you want is a 12v12 invisble sniper fest.
Don't get me wrong though, 12v12 is actually really intense the way the maps are constantly bottlenecked

in my honest opinion the lack of prone will really keep the games intense

> These are 12v12 maps,
> and the last thing you want is a 12v12 invisble
> sniper fest.

Yeah, just like in Call of Duty 4. Man, those 9 v 9 invisible sniper fests have ruined that game!

You can't use ANY other weapons like the MP5, M16, or G-36C. NOBODY plays that game anymore since it's not intense due to the inclusion of prone AND snipers. Empty servers, poor sales for IW. Yup, prone + snipers = failure!

Doh! Wait a minute!

Must be confused with some other game (Frontlines and its crappy weapon modeling and comm system?). COD4 sessions are readily available since there are so many players and their sales are outstanding. Even on maps like Creek snipers must fear infiltrating SMG'ers and riflemen since the weapons are so well balanced and the maps so well designed relative to weapon performance.

Here's a crazy idea. Instead of repeating DICE marketing department drivel, why don't we gamers actually focus on reality!

Now there's a thought! And the reality is that other games include prone snipers and without kill cams and red dots and they're quite popular and work just fine.

And remember, if you really buy the DICE spin, here's what you're buying: a very bizzare meeting of the DICE development and marketing teams...

developer: "Play tests show the sniper weapon is uber powerful while the other weapons fire spit-wads. The class is totally unbalanced".

marketer: "Here's a solution! Prevent ALL infantry from going prone but LEAVE the weapons as is!"

developer: "Hey, great idea! Why didn't I think of that! But will gamers believe that?"

marketer: "Sure! Who are they going to believe, DICE or their lying eyes?"

If you think that makes sense, I have this friend in Nigeria who would like to speak with you. You see, he just inherited vast wealth and...

Fatt47:And if you could also, please explain to me the theory behind insisting on developing, promoting and forcing this so called balance idea in a war game, are there balance features in a real war? Hmmm.

Are you really that big an idiot?

There is not balanced features in real war because it is... (wait for it) ... REAL!

There are balanced features in video games because they are... (wait for it)... NOT REAL! They're meant to be fun, fair, competitive and a break from... (wait for it) ... REALITY!

> > These are 12v12 maps,
> > and the last thing you want is a 12v12 invisble
> > sniper fest.
>
> Yeah, just like in Call of Duty 4. Man, those 9 v 9
> invisible sniper fests have ruined that game!
>
> You can't use ANY other weapons like the MP5, M16, or
> G-36C. NOBODY plays that game anymore since it's not
> intense due to the inclusion of prone AND snipers.
> Empty servers, poor sales for IW. Yup, prone +
> snipers = failure!
>
> Doh! Wait a minute!
>
> Must be confused with some other game (Frontlines and
> its crappy weapon modeling and comm system?). COD4
> sessions are readily available since there are so
> many players and their sales are outstanding. Even
> on maps like Creek snipers must fear infiltrating
> SMG'ers and riflemen since the weapons are so well
> balanced and the maps so well designed relative to
> weapon performance.
>
> Here's a crazy idea. Instead of repeating DICE
> marketing department drivel, why don't we gamers
> actually focus on reality!
>
> Now there's a thought! And the reality is that
> other games include prone snipers and without kill
> cams and red dots and they're quite popular and work
> just fine.
>
> And remember, if you really buy the DICE spin, here's
> what you're buying: a very bizzare meeting of the
> DICE development and marketing teams...
>
> developer: "Play tests show the sniper weapon is uber
> powerful while the other weapons fire spit-wads. The
> class is totally unbalanced".
>
> marketer: "Here's a solution! Prevent ALL infantry
> from going prone but LEAVE the weapons as is!"
>
> developer: "Hey, great idea! Why didn't I think of
> that! But will gamers believe that?"
>
> marketer: "Sure! Who are they going to believe, DICE
> or their lying eyes?"
>
> If you think that makes sense, I have this friend in
> Nigeria who would like to speak with you. You see, he
> just inherited vast wealth and...


Nough said! stop trying to make excuses for the lack of prone, we have given you plenty of logical examples, while yours and Dices haven't made any sense to this day.

Zerk you have fail us as a moderator and should step down imidietly!


Message was edited by: tactician (EA Id)

> Fatt47:And if you could also, please explain to me
> the theory behind insisting on developing, promoting
> and forcing this so called balance idea in a war
> game, are there balance features in a real war? Hmmm.
>
>
> Are you really that big an idiot?
>
> There is not balanced features in real war because it
> is... (wait for it) ... REAL!
>
> There are balanced features in video games because
> they are... (wait for it)... NOT REAL! They're meant
> to be fun, fair, competitive and a break from...
> (wait for it) ... REALITY!

Yo NeecHMonkey, you're real cute with your personal attack name calling, typical though of a little kid who can't stand others want to enjoy themselves at the level they want instead of like yours.
Wait for this now! No one not I have said everyone should play the game the way they or I want, all some of us are saying is it would be nice if DICE would just give us the options and features within the game that would allow us to set up more realistic atmospheres so that we can enjoy our time with the game.

So why don't you take your sarcastic childish like personal attacking little attitude and lack of productive input persona somewhere where it's appreciated, where that is I have no idea but just take it somewhere.

> Still trying to use logic in an attempt to persuade
> Dice in implementing prone? Or are you just wasting
> alot of time running your mouth? What is the
> objective? The only one way to prove EA we mean
> business is by boycott, otherwise you're just wasting
> your time, Bub.

I don't consider my being honest or communicating about how concerned I am about game quality or what additions reality wise would help the game running my mouth as you put it tactician.
I don't do stupid worthless boycotts when it comes to something I personally want to partake of, I will buy the game and try to enjoy it to the best level the game allows me bub.

> everyone seems to be forgetting, also, that this is
> not BF2 with 64 player maps. These are 12v12 maps,
> and the last thing you want is a 12v12 invisble
> sniper fest.
> Don't get me wrong though, 12v12 is actually really
> intense the way the maps are constantly bottlenecked
>
> in my honest opinion the lack of prone will really
> keep the games intense

I'm not forgetting anything zerk16, I think I've taken everything into account that I need to when stating what my desires are for a quality realistically potential game.
I've said from the start of all this, prone is a realistic natural action that should be available for every soldier in the game, that just makes sense to me sorry.

Some like intense atmospheres as you call em some don't, some of us like to play a more strategy based slow paced realistic form of play so why can't there be options and features that allow all gamers to enjoy this great game and the potential.
Give us the ability to Host Private Matches and within those matches set some feature guidelines for our matches?

I guess it's hopeless thinking the game producer wants ALL Consumers to be satisfied with game when they don't seem to see the need to give those users some simple features that would make the game much more diverse, fun and challenging for those who want to play it that way, I guess I should face the facts that we are about to be forced into a run and gun Wyatt Earp at the OK corral type of atmosphere even though there is so much more potential with the game and its nice big maps, oh well.

As I remeber, BF: Vietnam brought grass and bushes into the terrains of the gameplay. This was an added bonuse becuase it allowed the snipers to go prone in the middle of a grass field or behind the grass in the hilltops and do their job. Somebody would always find the sniper anyways.

It was such a cool feature that they decided to redo some of the BF 1942 maps and add all the foilage, grass, bushes, and trees! So that people could go prone!

The main reason for adding the grass was so going prone, you would be hidden. So, in the past, DICE added grass for going prone, now, they are taking prone away?

I don't want to hear any more about how it destroys the gameplay for the 5 year olds that are migrating from Halo 3 to Battlefield : Bug Company

GFY DICE!