"The stars do not convert one-to-one into attribute points. For stick flex two and a half stars is neutral and each point above that is worth about three attribute points and each point below is about minus three."

Hello, just wondering what you mean by each point. Do you mean half a star, a full star, or all the way to the right and left?

> Thanks for the reply to both of my posts. You
> obviously have thick skin to do this here with
> everyone. Some of the idea I had were just food for
> thought/brainstorming. Thanks for being EA's
> lightning rod (none of my frustration are directed
> toward you personally).
>
> I have a question about EXP points though- At what
> point do you really start to see a noticable
> difference when you are adding? I mean, how much does
> one single point actually help? For me personally, I
> add 5 points at once to whatever attribute im
> boosting (for lack of better words).

In general every point matters a little bit because the effect is continuous, there are a few exceptions to this like the auto-saucer pass which is one of the effects of the passing attribute. This one kicks in at a specific number (can't recall exactly what off hand). Shot blocking is another like that where the primary effect kicks in at a threshold (around 85).

I consider this sort of hard-edged effect a weak design and the ones that act that way are all on my hit list of things that need to be fixed. Even for something like the shot block which affects a discrete choice between one animation and another can be made a gradual effect by making the chance of getting the "better" one go up as the attribute goes up.

> Has it ever been discussed at EA to have maybe a
> "Coach" only mode in this game? Similar to the NFL
> Head Coach? Just a thought...

I could see this being a possibility at some point -- though I think the AI needs some work before it is ready to support a mode like that that is truly compelling. A lot of the things it would need would be valuable in the existing modes (line matching, deeper strategic options, etc.) too...

> Could you give details of what attributes height and
> weight affect?
>
> Obviously speed, acceleration, agility and shooting,
> it seems taller players have better puck control
> and/or balance too, what other things are affected?

Being taller and/or heavier has these pros and cons:

+checking
+resisting being checked
+reach (because the stick is longer)
-speed
-agility
-acceleration
-keeping the puck in close (because puck is more exposed being further away)

I think that's it.

I was wondering if you could clear a few things up for me in regards to attributes for goalies. I recently switched to another user profile in order to make a new character and to be honest I was quite suprised by the results.

As a superstar goalie I was putting every single point into speed in order to counter the cross crease passes. It worked well and I am able to get across quite quickly. Here however are a few of my questions.

1.) After switching ALL available points from agility to speed I expected to give up a few more goals from the point or shots from the slot in favour of getting across to save from the cross creasers. Amazingly I felt absolutely no difference whatsoever is save making ability. In fact to be honest my goalie starting robbing people with his glove and blocker a little more often. Just how much of a modifier is agility anyways, because to tell the truth I can't feel it.

2.) This one is mind blowing. So after determining the importance of speed I swith over to a brand new profile in order work on maintaing slightly more respectable stats. I was really worried about having to readjust from 90 speed to 78 for a while until I got my new superstar. Guess what. There seems to absolutely NO NOTICEABLE difference between a 5'11 goalie with 90 speed or a 5"11 goalie with 78 speed!? Incredible! Why am I spending so many hours trying to fight for my legend when it seems that these attributes have such negligible/if any affect on the game?

You have been upfront with us about other stats, primarly the goalie recovery stat which has absolutely no effect, can you fill us in a little more about what is going on here?

I think part of the great allure of this game is its character/role building aspects. I could hardly believe you would program an rpg or adventure game where attributes actually have such little effect.

> What region would be considered low stick and low
> glove? Would this be pad saves on their respective
> sides, or the middle region where they could actually
> use their stick and glove?

Low stick means low on the stick side and low glove means low on the glove side, regardless of what part the save is made with (all of the low saves are most likely going to be pad saves). Everything low in the middle is considered 5-hole, even right on the ice. Here is a diagram:

----- -----
--- --- ---


High Stick High Glove
Low Stick 5-hole Low Glove

Roughly, the division between high and low is about two feet off the ice.

> Hey Jason, I'd like to thank you for all the
> information provided in this thread, it helps ALOT.
>
> I have a question which is moreso aimed toward design
> than actual gameplay...
>
> Why is there player types? I assume it was
> implemented to give players a "niche" to sit in that
> would fit their playstyle...
>
> What if we all started equal and as we progress and
> unlock cards, we get to tailor our player?
>
> Say we all start with 65's or 70's in all categories
> (or however you guys see fit to make it playable as a
> rookie) and as we unlock cards, we get points.
>
> For exemple...
>
> Let's say we unlock 60 points for Offensive, 40 for
> Defensive, 50 for Athletic. (Or 60 across the board)
>
> Then we'd be able to really tailor our player to our
> playstyle and inevitably become a "player type" I
> guess, but in the end it's up to the player, not the
> engine. Madden has a solid system based on this. If I
> decide to play safety and I make him fast and agile,
> I'll most likely be a coverage safety. If I make him
> slower, massive with alot of hitting power, I'm gonna
> be a hard hitting safety. You get the idea...
>
> Basicly, what I'm wondering is why do we get a
> playertype, which gives us base stats, and then we
> get to polish it with the last 20 points over being
> able to really tailor our player and then be given a
> playertype according to where our points were spent.
>
> The reason behind all of this? 80% of the top Dmen I
> know play as playmakers. We get 80 for Faceoffs
> (completely useless for us) and 65 for shot blocking
> (Pretty low).
>
> Imagine if we had those 10 pts (Say we started with a
> base 70 for faceoffs) and were able to add them to
> whatever else we may want, it would help us greatly
> vs being forced with an amazing base faceoff stat.
>
> I personally prefer Madden's system over NHL's.

I guess there are a lot of different ways it could be done. I wasn't involved in the design of the current system and I think I'd have taken it a completely different direction if I had been since I am not a fan of experienced players getting a double bonus (being better at playing and getting an advantage for attributes). There are pros and cons both ways. That said I agree there are some quirks in the system now that should be fixed, for example the costs of attributes are not all that reflective of their value in game and some oddities in the distribution of attributes in the player types that should be touched up.

> "The stars do not convert one-to-one into attribute
> points. For stick flex two and a half stars is
> neutral and each point above that is worth about
> three attribute points and each point below is about
> minus three."
>
> Hello, just wondering what you mean by each point. Do
> you mean half a star, a full star, or all the way to
> the right and left?

Each full star.

Can you possibly touch on how the potential and poise attributes impact player development and gameplay?

Thanks!

Any talk of putting face recognition software in the game? This could be a KEY feature to EASHL

Is fatigue a factor in EASHL/Ranked OTP? Do players get more tired as the game goes on, and is this affected by how fast they skate, how many shots they attempt, or other things?

Also, I have to disagree with the crowd that wants more unlockables. This would be annoying, because players who play more will have a significant edge, and the true advantage to playing more is that you improve your skills. Artificial increases to this are, for the most part, just stupid. I think they did a really good job balancing this, giving some bonuses for playing a lot (and well) but not too many.

Also, having lower base stats and more attribute points might make players too customizable--people with "insider info" (the ones who read this thread, for example) would then be able to put crazy points into a few valuable stats and have a significant advantage. As it is now, there's enough variation to tailor your player to your playing style, but not so much that players get a big advantage from knowing such details as those we got in this thread.
Also, it might bring back cheese--players could just max out shot accuracy and go back to the cheese goals that now only work with crazy accuracy (more than you can currently get).

One final player type suggesetion: The Offensive Defenseman model is fairly terrible. I haven't known a single defenseman who uses it, only some wingers. It's not suited to defense at all because its awareness, checking, and other defensive attributes are so low. There needs to be more balance, either by trading some offense for these or by creating some sort of Balanced Defenseman model in the middle.

> Is fatigue a factor in EASHL/Ranked OTP? Do players
> get more tired as the game goes on, and is this
> affected by how fast they skate, how many shots they
> attempt, or other things?
>
> Also, I have to disagree with the crowd that wants
> more unlockables. This would be annoying, because
> players who play more will have a significant edge,
> and the true advantage to playing more is that you
> improve your skills. Artificial increases to this
> are, for the most part, just stupid. I think they did
> a really good job balancing this, giving some bonuses
> for playing a lot (and well) but not too many.
>
> Also, having lower base stats and more attribute
> points might make players too
> customizable--people with "insider info" (the ones
> who read this thread, for example) would then be able
> to put crazy points into a few valuable stats and
> have a significant advantage. As it is now, there's
> enough variation to tailor your player to your
> playing style, but not so much that players get a big
> advantage from knowing such details as those we got
> in this thread.
> Also, it might bring back cheese--players could just
> max out shot accuracy and go back to the cheese goals
> that now only work with crazy accuracy (more than you
> can currently get).
>
> One final player type suggesetion: The Offensive
> Defenseman model is fairly terrible. I haven't known
> a single defenseman who uses it, only some wingers.
> It's not suited to defense at all because its
> awareness, checking, and other defensive attributes
> are so low. There needs to be more balance, either by
> trading some offense for these or by creating some
> sort of Balanced Defenseman model in the middle.

Fatigue is not a factor in OTP.

You're right on Offensive Defenseman, but I think both D-men types are bad. I play D and for me, Playmaker is the only way to go, mostly because of passing and increased Def. Awareness which I usually set to 95 (or 90 if I raise Balance to 75).

I don't think checking attribute makes that much difference though, it's all about timing. I have it on default 60 and dish 'em out pretty good.

RedShirt can you answer this, for goalie attribute speed. does this only affect it when u hold LT and skate around or does it affect ur player speed when ur moving with ur left stick left to right in ur crease, or is that only agility???

also do goalie attribute 'angles' have an effect on human players or only cpu players..

Thanks Redshirt !.

------first i think its awesome a developer for a game is talking about the inner workings of the games and not protecting them like they're some trade secret that somebody is going to steal.


i think some kinda perk system would be great for the eashl. embrace the rpg aspect, this 0-99 point system is terrible for this kind of thing, but i get that the attributes dictate how the game works and you guys didn't have time to make a really good system.

i think a really straightforward rpg type system like in mmo's or even cod4 would be absolutely great for this game. the fear i guess is that you take away the realism by it being black and white between those who can do a certain things and those who don't while in the real nhl most players can do the same things, just at varying degrees.

but i dont think its necessarilly a bad thing to make somebody learn the ability of loose puck dekes maybe, of course you can still have a perk type system we've seen in games like fallout 3 without making everything a learnable ability, but maybe consolidate some of these attributes into perks (like balance+puck control, or wrister acc+slapper acc, or wrister acc+wrister power, etc.)

iono, im sure you guys have already considered a bunch of ways to go about this, but i really like being able to pick a type of player like sniper or playmaker without having to worry about which is the most efficient, but i really didn't like having to choose point by point my attributes. i actually dont like having my player type be decided for me as much as it is, but on the other hand i dont like how much i have to consider how much detail there is in picking each stat 1 by 1. hopefully next year there are a ton of little things to pick, but not picking everything point by point.

its funny how speed and acceleration cost the same in bap, yet in the eashl speed is 3 times more valuable. and its kinda weird that at 80 wrister accuracy costs exactly twice as much as previously to level up. i think these thresholds are important in theory, but they're done sloppily. and the fact that bap defensemen get a lot of points to spend in defense and forwards get more points in offense, yet in the eashl, everybody gets the same amount across the board.

i know a lot of this is obvious, but here's to hoping that there's really awesome player customization options next year that are really complex and rewarding to tuning your character, but still straightforward enough so that anybody can jump in and pick what they want and know what they're getting.