Zerk, We (console players) deserve a response

xbox.upNsmoke09 wrote:

cem_ea_id.RiQuid9 wrote:As a consumer and game tester, I'm surprised and concerned that there is only a slim chance for users to go prone in the console version. I own Modern Warfare on the 360, and let's face it - BF:BC2 is a competitor. In order to compete, you've got to have everything Modern Warfare has right now AND more. Excluding the ability to go prone will only lessen that ability to give what users want.

One reason why Modern Warfare is so successful is undoubtedly its fast pace. However, realizing that they accomplish this with the ability to go prone is a huge deal. Refuting the ability to go prone because "it slows the pace" and "encourages camping" is simply not a credible argument. Just look at Modern Warfare. They're doing more than fine, and the pace is there.

the pace is still there in mw2 cuz the maps are dinky and small. of course the pace is going to be fast if the spawn points are behind people's backs. the way i see it, mw2 is an epic version of pacman.

if you allow prone in wide open maps like in bc, the pace is most definitely gonna slow down.

and please.. "you've got to have everything modern warfare has right now AND more." that's the direction mw2 took and now it's pretty much a failure. best shooter of the year my *. only cuz they didn't have any competition.

actually, in order to compete, you've gotta bring something new to the table. bc brought destructible environment and now DICE is capitalizing on it in bc2.

seriously, bc started off as a console game. it should stay a console game. now that DICE decided to include PC, all the PC gamers are nagging and demanding more stuff. bc2 on PC is gonna be different than bc2 on consoles in that they'll have more features. needless to say, it is a better version. so yea, consoles are getting jipped. how homo is that?

if anything, PC's are taking away from the game for us console players cuz DICE is making a whole version for PC instead of porting it, which takes time away from console development.. they should just not release the game to PC and make them wait for bf3. they can release bc2 for PC sometime later like they did to bf2 for xbox and playstation.

ur spot on with the prone issue but the things you talk about with the pc is utter bull *.

BF_SUB.pomppaduur wrote:

xbox.Beasty Drummer wrote:Ill take that as Console is getting screwed over, once again.

Of course you are getting screwed over. Simple fact with any game console. Just buy a PC and be happy with the freedom of modding and other fantastic features.

Yea Just buy a PC and Get aimboted and wallhacked.

Cause you can do so much more with a PC!

DaH.

Wow still idiots participating in this crap thread,this threads is just proof of how stupid people can be and Zerks minimalistic moderation of this forum.

cem_ea_id.RiQuid9 wrote:As a consumer and game tester, I'm surprised and concerned that there is only a slim chance for users to go prone in the console version. I own Modern Warfare on the 360, and let's face it - BF:BC2 is a competitor. In order to compete, you've got to have everything Modern Warfare has right now AND more. Excluding the ability to go prone will only lessen that ability to give what users want.

One reason why Modern Warfare is so successful is undoubtedly its fast pace. However, realizing that they accomplish this with the ability to go prone is a huge deal. Refuting the ability to go prone because "it slows the pace" and "encourages camping" is simply not a credible argument. Just look at Modern Warfare. They're doing more than fine, and the pace is there.

Which leads to another reason why so many people like Modern Warfare - its realism. The controls are responsive and they utilize every button to perform an effective task. Part of being "modern" is replicating reality. Anything short of that is simply "not modern" or just plain old. BF:BC is a good example because it attempts to be "modern". So why exclude the reality of going prone? It isn't a modern way to deal with your competitors, DICE...

Lastly, the Frostbite engine that allows for cover to get blown away should only add to the experience of going prone. Just think about it. If "you realize too late", but you know his position, you can easily start off with an RPG during respawn and just blast the building he was hiding in. Even if you miss him, you simply need to hit his cover and there goes - that sniper is done. So going prone has its advantages and its disadvantages, and everyone knows that!

And by the way, camping is not just caused by the ability to prone. A major factor that Zerk didn't mention was the level design. If you have a cramped map, you would rarely go prone because it's so easy for enemies to run from behind you. I agree that for large maps with distances between cover, snipers will camp - yes. But camping is caused by so many factors, not just the ability to prone. If DICE is so worried about camping, just work on level design to discourage prone, or offer servers that don't allow players to go prone.

C'mon guys at DICE...open your eyes. If you're going to be "modern" about it, then get modern. Because in modern day, going prone is a necessity, and although you may claim you're not selling reality, to consumers, you're selling somewhat of a virtual reality - just one with minor consequences for dying.

OK, good points. So what? Prone doesn't necessarily mean the game is going to be better. Here's some reasons on why prone works with MW2 and not BC2.

The engine that runs MW2 renders all vegetation at any distance. But since that takes up quite a bit of space, they make particularly small maps. In addition, the sniper class ghillie suit changes camo depending on the map (so for example, an arctic map will have arctic camo, woodland will have woodland, etc.)

Frostbite, however, only renders all vegetation around the player itself, and only major vegetation such as bushes/shrubs and trees from a distance. That being said, from far away, you can't see grass. As prone is mostly used to hide under grass with the ghillie suit, the sniper would be a big blob of green in the middle of a seemingly empty field.

Snipers may be able to counter that by hiding near a bush, but crouching could've accomplished the same goal. In addition, I do not believe camo changes depending on the environment, so hiding in the shadows with a dark green ghillie suit is a much more preferred option.

All in all, Frostbite engine does not go hand in hand with prone. In the future, when the Frostbite engine reaches maturity and can render vegetation from any distance, then will prone be an acceptable option.

BTW, like another comment, just by including the same things doesn't make the game good. America's Army had prone, crouching, lean (I believe), and various factors contributing to gunplay and wartime simulation. Was that a good game? No. Games like BC innovate the gaming industry by adding in destruction at a new level. If BC2 were to include all the features from MW2 AND MORE, then it wouldn't be all that great of a game, because we've seen it and now its old.

And I declare this comment the last for this thread. The point of this thread has been accomplished. We've recieved a response: no prone!!! Get over it.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 12/18/2009 07:06:27

you've got to have everything Modern Warfare has right now AND more. Excluding the ability to go prone will only lessen that ability to give what users want.

Is it just me or is every thread being bombarded with these kind of COD statements now?
If u want something like MW but better...WAIT for the next COD game and hope IW gives a rats a$$ for their customers.
This is BF...DICE shouldn't have to cater to any other fan base but their own, COD fans will buy the game anyways thanks to IW's failure.
I'm starting to wish MW2 was a kick a$$ game, so all the hardcore COD fanboys stood out of the BF forums.
Before COD failed, most of the fan boys cut down BF games and ridiculed BF players, now all of a sudden they hopped on the BF wagon.
There's nothing wrong with that, just stop comparing, begging, and trying to make BF a COD product.
Screw the akimbo dual weilding shotguns, or 30 ft knife kills, and all of the other arcady features.

And for the record, prone is VERY difficult to code and implement properly in a non-flat semi-destructive environment.
Hitbox detection, models floating up in the air, vegetation draw distance, model clipping glitches...the list goes on.

All in all, Frostbite engine does not go hand in hand with prone. In the future, when the Frostbite engine reaches maturity and can render vegetation from any distance, then will prone be an acceptable option.

+1...not only an engine, but we'll also need the hardware that can handle the calculations to implement that.

Kasp

xbox.ImpulS v47 wrote:its quite simple... no prone and clan support = no money for dice and ea.

Because im (and my online buddys) not gona pay for another crapy and dumbed down light version of battlefield.
Dice, im not not sure if guys know that, but there are alot of other titles, who are actuelly have all this (simple) stuff
cough*MW2 and OPFDR2*cough. Its called competition... so you actually have to do somthing, to attract your customers. Its cool that you put some new stuff in, like "perks" and kit-customation, but if you guys dont add simple things like prone and clansupport (comon... just 4 or 5 letters for our names), then battlefield bc2 just becomes another sh!ty battlefield, which will have a really good base, but you guys just * it up (again).

Prone is a must have, no prone... no money.

PS: english isnt my first language

find it dumb if they are adding perks.. CoD much.. im getting OPFDR2 for christmas if u lookin to play. xbl- shorty tm

xbox.shorty tm1 wrote:find it dumb if they are adding perks.. CoD much.. im getting OPFDR2 for christmas if u lookin to play. xbl- shorty tm

OFPDR is more FAIL then any other game released this year man. I wouldn't touch the game, trust me I have it.
Don't believe me? Check out their official forums.
Single player was pretty good...but multiplayer is CRAP and definitely not worth spending money on.
Trying to save you some cash, that's all.

Kasp

cem_ea_id.squishies wrote:

ur spot on with the prone issue but the things you talk about with the pc is utter bull *.

i take it you're a pc gamer. if you were a console gamer, you'd agree wholeheartedly. PC guys are more than likely to be disappointed with bc2. thas why i'm saying u should wait for bf3.

but! we'll see. i think PC gets a demo too right?

xbox.upNsmoke09 wrote:

cem_ea_id.squishies wrote:

ur spot on with the prone issue but the things you talk about with the pc is utter bull *.

i take it you're a pc gamer. if you were a console gamer, you'd agree wholeheartedly. PC guys are more than likely to be disappointed with bc2. thas why i'm saying u should wait for bf3.

but! we'll see. i think PC gets a demo too right?

The logic of a retarded gamer, you shouldn't be on console or PC you should go back to letting your dad touch you at night.

MAIN.PettingZooponyP wrote:The logic of a retarded gamer, you shouldn't be on console or PC you should go back to letting your dad touch you at night.

is that what happened to you before you discovered games? the fail is strong with this one.

"If you try pleasing everyone, you'll end up pleasing no-one."

/thread

cem_ea_id.Chezrockwell wrote:to who ever said prone is the most important stance in a fire fight has obviously never been in one. I am speaking from how Marines operate as I was in the Corps for 5 years and I don't remember ever being prone, except for ambushes. yes you gain a very stable platform to shoot with, hence why when we qualify we shoot from the 300 and the 500 in it, but it is not practical to use closer than that as you lose mobility. and I know that it gives the smallest profile/silhouette, but it is not practical in modern combat where speed wins and complacency kills. Most combat since the last gulf war, besides between tanks, has happened closer than 200 meters. Marines are trained to close with and destroy the enemy through the use of fire and maneuver. Prone doesn't give the chance for very much maneuverability. Even my brother who was an SDM in Afghanistan didn't spend much time in the prone, unless he was on overwatch, or ambushes. In maneuver warfare, prone has no position, except in a defensive role, last I checked this game was focusing on fast paced play, not setting up a bivouac, but what would I know I am a dumb Marine....

Last time I checked, the Battlefield series wasn't really played online using real battlefield manuevers. In all honesty, it couldn't, unless it's an organized match with set behavioral rules, using a mod such as Project Reality. Vanilla-wise, the small scale of all the maps made holding your position a necessity at times, and far more easy to do when you could make yourself harder to spot. Later in the series, the it wasn't even really an advantage because of UAV's...and the fact that everyone else was able to go prone as well, and there was bound to be a sniper waiting to pick off an enemy marksman.

Do you honestly think players in pub matches are going to file their way into nice and orderly bounding overwatch manuevers and house-to-house sweeps? Are the players going to be organzed enough or even have the communications capacity to sort themselves into mechanized infantry raids? No, with few exceptions, people are going to run around as randomly as ever on their own individual missions, and it's only fair to give players complete control over their 'toons.'

Fellow Battlefielders, BC2 is 'not balanced for lea---prone.'.

I dont have a problem with prone or something stupid like that. I dont prone on doom3 and its my favorite game. I dont prone on medal of honor airborne and I love that game anyway, I dont prone on half life 2 and that game is one of the best ever. Left 4 Dead doesnt have prone and guess what I dont care. Listen, what I care about is why dice did such a terrible job with the texture of that game. Dont ignore this...if you are a game developer you cannot sit there and tell me BF2 doesnt look better than BC2 cause it does.....hell BF2142 at max makes this BC2 look like crap. I tried this beta and I just cant believe how blobky everything is. Not only that how unrealisticly big the weapons look and not to mention the cross irion sights of some of them....HUGE and cartoony...comn dice. Did you loose it like metallica did?

I, for one, think that the engine they used in Modern Combat 2 was perfectly fine and the gameplay was as close to perfect as you can get.

But, of course, they had to go and "revolutionize" something that was perfectly fine.

What they should have done was keep the old engine that they used for MC2 on 360, added new maps, weapons, vehicles, gamemodes, clan support and just released a sequel instead of trying to do this. It would have worked out alot better because not being able to go prone in a war game is just stupid, and I don't care if it doesn't work for the game engine, it's the basic art of a war game.

Electronic Arts

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