Roster and Ratings Discussion: New York Giants

Hey guys, we are going to use this thread as the catch all New York Giants roster and ratings discussion. Got a problem with a guy being rated too high or too low, this is the place to speak your mind, but please keep it clean. If there is a guy on your team that’s not in the game, feel free to post that in here as well.

When you bring your argument, make sure you bring stats and provide as much reasoning as possible. Rating s Czar Donny Moore will be stopping by this thread from time to time, so your voice will actually be heard by the guy in charge of making all of the roster and ratings decisions for Madden NFL 10. Make it worthwhile.

If you have any questions, feel free to send me a PM.

I said it before that I don't believe in players being dropped because of preseason play, but one player's rating in particular really makes me mad, eli manning is highly overrated in the game, the giants have an awesome d this year, brandon jacobs is a beast, but they do not have a legitimate number 1 wr, and we all seen what happened last year when eli lost plax, now he doesn't have plax for the whole season and they have done nothing to make up for that. I complained about this in another thread so I will just copy and past my argument here.

eli can't win without a a wr that can make up for his short comings, what happened when plax went down last season, they lost what? 4 games. yeah really good quarter back. how about this for comparison, eli is an 87 on madden, jeff garcia is only a 75 I believe, eli's career qb rating 76.1, career completion % 55.9, career touchdown to int ratio 98 to 74, which is 75%. jeff garcia's career qb rating 87.5, career completion % 61.6, career touchdown to int ratio 161 to 83, or 51%. 2008 stats eli 86.4, 60.3, 21 to 10 or 47%. jeff garcia 90.2, 64.9, 12 to 6, or 50%. and one thing you must admit is that new york had a much better team then the bucs did last season, much much better. how about for fun we throw in chad pennington who is an 85 overall in madden his career numbers are 90.6, 66% completion, 101 to 62 which is 61%, his stats last year 97.4, 67.4% completion, and 19 to 7 which is 36% td to int. when you compare an 87 rated eli manning to an 85 rated chad pennington then you can see how I can say he is overrated.

as you can see I have plenty of facts to back up my argument, I feel that eli should at least drop to an 80 overall, or jeff garcia should be an 85 and pennington should be an 88, btw I am a niners fan so I don't have anything against the giants, they aren't rivals, I am not a raider fan or a dolphins fan I just think that eli is overrated.

Good post. I didn't take the time to read it, and I won't take the time to argue it, but if Eli is overrated, then so is Ben Roethlisberger. Ben gives up more sacks and throws more picks than most QB's in the NFL, and still has a 93 overall rating. There is no way this is possible.

Another thing. The Giants do not have a dominant defense. They have a dominant front 4, and after that, it goes straight downhill. Their linebacking core, minus Antonio Pierce, is one of the worst in the league, and their secondary is getting old, but they are still above average.

What really kills me is that Ahman Bradshaw is the fastest player on that team. Really? To me, this doesn't make sense, but hey, I don't expect Donny Moore to get the ratings right on the team that beat the Patriots for the Superbowl.

big ben is overrated but they always overrate the super bowl champs. I dont think that the giants d looks impressive on paper but they have been doing extremely well in the preseason.

Ummm last time I checked, Eli had his best season statsically last season without Plax. Eli made the Pro Bowl without Plax, also made the Pro Bowls with the most drop passes by receivers in two consecutive seasons. Eli has played in the Hardest Division in football, harshest media, adn harshest weather conditions and guess what....He made the playoffs every year he started and Won a SuperBowl. The Defense played well in the SuperBowl but disappered against the Cowboys (Flozell Adams and Marc Columbo held Osi and tuck in check) and Disappered againtst the Packers. The Giants got far in the Playoffs becasue Eli improved. WHat his Garcia accomplished? Garcia is a system QB....Garcia is only good in a West COast Offense because of his weak arm, and Garcia is only as good as the palyers around him....what happened in Cleveland? lol Derek Anderson beat his out for QB position.

Also remeber Eli got his team in the playoffs, a year before Kurt Warner Miserably failed the Giants. And 87 overall is ridiculous for ELI manning because Carson is an 88 layin in the hospital for 2 seasons.

Fred Robbins and Barry Cofield are unsung heroes on the Giants Defensive Line and overshawdowed by Osi and Tuck.

Fred Robbins has been a force at DT since hes been a Giant. Last Season, He stepped up his pass rush ability when Osi when down. Robbins is a force against the run as well. Robbins being an 83 overall is ridiculous, hes rated along with Adam Carriker, Shaun Smith, Cornelius Griffin, and Sedrick Ellis lol Give me a Break. Also fellow lineman, Chris Canty neva played a down in a 4-3 Defense and is rated high than Robbins. Why is that EA? Tuck and RObbins were both MVP on our Line. Robbins did it too playin with 2 broken hands and a Bum Knee.

Barry Cofield rated at 75 is ridiculous also. Cofield is projected too start again for his 4th season at a Giant. But somehow, Newcomers.. Rocky Benard and Chris Canty is rated over him.

Cofield should at least be an 80
Robbins should be at least an 85-86.

I think EA really needs too re-rate some of the DTs on the game. Tommie Harris shouldnt be rated over Jay Ratliff either. Ratliff shuld be an 89-90. Tommie Harris has been what he once was. And Vince Wilfork should be at least a top3 DT.

The Giants DT's are the main thing that irriates me because Robbins and Cofield will be starters. Canty is good but hes more of a versatile pass rusher who can play DE or DT, he will probably replace Robbins in a couple of seasons because of Robbins knees

majestic u should learn more about football. You cant Compare a West Coast QB too a SmashMouth Running Team.In a west coast offense, short passing plays make up for a lack of a running game. Garcia will always hit 60% of his passes because its a lot easier getting in a rhythm hitting slants,drags, HB wing passes, and HB screens.

Garcia made a career of throwing a screen pass to TO and watchin him break it into a 75 yard TD. The West Coast system is all ABOUT YAC (yards after catch). West Coast QBs are sooo overrated. Mcnabb,Garcia, Hassleback, and Pennigton are the most boring QBs too watch because they will throw slants,drags, and screens too death with an Occasional Deep Ball.

A smash mouth offense its harder too set a tempo becasue ur rarely passing. ANd when ur passing, its becasue ur losing and playing from behind. Playaction passes take a lot of work, tryin too sell it too the defense. Most Smash Moth offenses play in terrible weather, and this is the reason for their syle.

Also remeber the GIants defense isnt dominant. The front 4 is dominant, covering our weakness in the LB postion and Secondary. A dominant Defense is the Steelers and Ravens...there is almost no weakness in any position.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 09/02/2009 00:50:40

cem_ea_id.T-Murda84 wrote:majestic u should learn more about football. You cant Compare a West Coast QB too a SmashMouth Running Team.In a west coast offense, short passing plays make up for a lack of a running game. Garcia will always hit 60% of his passes because its a lot easier getting in a rhythm hitting slants,drags, HB wing passes, and HB screens.

Garcia made a career of throwing a screen pass to TO and watchin him break it into a 75 yard TD. The West Coast system is all ABOUT YAC (yards after catch). West Coast QBs are sooo overrated. Mcnabb,Garcia, Hassleback, and Pennigton are the most boring QBs too watch because they will throw slants,drags, and screens too death with an Occasional Deep Ball.

A smash mouth offense its harder too set a tempo becasue ur rarely passing. ANd when ur passing, its becasue ur losing and playing from behind. Playaction passes take a lot of work, tryin too sell it too the defense. Most Smash Moth offenses play in terrible weather, and this is the reason for their syle.

Also remeber the GIants defense isnt dominant. The front 4 is dominant, covering our weakness in the LB postion and Secondary. A dominant Defense is the Steelers and Ravens...there is almost no weakness in any position.

you need to learn more about football, you are just blindly defending your team. eli is overrated, he makes the playoffs because he has a good team around him, eli had plax for the first 12 games and he still lost some, after plax was gone you guys didn't win 1 game. am I wrong about that? and about the hardest division, the cowboys were garbage last season, as well as the redskins, the eagles were good but not great so stop giving your team more credit then they deserve, since nobody from your division made the superbowl. garcia might have been in a west coast system, but what wr's did he have? are you saying that antonio bryant is as good as plax? stop making excuses eli manning is a poket qb so he should have a much better completion %. but anyways lets go ahead and say that you are right about garcia and the west coast system, chad pennington isn't in a west coast system, he doesn't have top wrs yet he has much better stats. and is rated lower then eli. the funny thing is I am actually giving your team props but only bashing your overrated qb and you are defending him like he pays you too. he isn't peyton and he never will be, you say the cardinals superbowl was a fluke, well guess what, that's the pot calling the kettle black, you guys didn't win one playoff game last year. like I said your d is looking good so far, and brandon jacobs is always a threat, probably my second favority running back in the league. but you guys don't have a legit number 1 reciever, and eli will struggle.

Eli will probably struggle this year, but it won't be his fault. Time and time again, he puts the ball where it needs to be and does all he could do. It's just that the only receiver that consistently helped him was Plaxico. But in 2008, Plax started to fade away. He had countless drops and he gave up on passes he needed to go and get sometimes. Look at this past preseason game against the Jets. You see that perfect bomb by Eli Manning? Dropped by Steve Smith. I've seen it happen so many times. In 2005, the best long ball I've ever seen thrown was Eli Manning on a 60 yard bomb to Tim Carter in stride, but he just cold dropped it. In 2006 to Amani Toomer who got behind the defense and Eli put it exactly where it needed to be but Toomer had a rare drop. Then fast forward to Dominik Hixon last year, go back to it and you wouldn't dare tell me that wasn't a perfect throw. Eli is a good QB and does a lot of little things good. You say he has a team around him and all he really has consistently is a running game. The receivers he had along the way weren't anything special. Plaxico was a #2 in Pittsburgh. It's safe to say that Eli made him one of the scariest receivers in the league because he had chemistry with him. Go back to the 2007 playoff game in Green Bay against the Packers. In no-throw weather, he picked on Al Harris who had perfect coverage on Plax on almost every play, how is that possible? What can beat perfect coverage? A perfect throw. Before you argue, do your homework and look at that game.

MAIN.Serg812 wrote:Eli will probably struggle this year, but it won't be his fault. Time and time again, he puts the ball where it needs to be and does all he could do. It's just that the only receiver that consistently helped him was Plaxico. But in 2008, Plax started to fade away. He had countless drops and he gave up on passes he needed to go and get sometimes. Look at this past preseason game against the Jets. You see that perfect bomb by Eli Manning? Dropped by Steve Smith. I've seen it happen so many times. In 2005, the best long ball I've ever seen thrown was Eli Manning on a 60 yard bomb to Tim Carter in stride, but he just cold dropped it. In 2006 to Amani Toomer who got behind the defense and Eli put it exactly where it needed to be but Toomer had a rare drop. Then fast forward to Dominik Hixon last year, go back to it and you wouldn't dare tell me that wasn't a perfect throw. Eli is a good QB and does a lot of little things good. You say he has a team around him and all he really has consistently is a running game. The receivers he had along the way weren't anything special. Plaxico was a #2 in Pittsburgh. It's safe to say that Eli made him one of the scariest receivers in the league because he had chemistry with him. Go back to the 2007 playoff game in Green Bay against the Packers. In no-throw weather, he picked on Al Harris who had perfect coverage on Plax on almost every play, how is that possible? What can beat perfect coverage? A perfect throw. Before you argue, do your homework and look at that game.

you named me a couple of big drops, but it isn't like his recievers will drop everything, you cannot put eli's completion percentage squarely on the recievers, if the recievers were that bad don't you think the giants would have drafted a wr, don't you think they would have attempted to get a fa wr who is at least reliable ie marvin harrison? the coach must be seeing something in those wr the giants have or else he would make some moves. the fact is even in the giants "smash mouth football" scheme all the wrs don't just do go routes, there is always short routes to check down to, a good qb knows that if you can't get the ball to the deep guy check it down, forgive the cross sport talk but every play can't be a homerun. you smash the ball with brandon jacobs, pa pass and hopefully you do get that wide open big gainer, but take the check down if you have to, don't force it, and that's what eli still hasn't completely learned. plax had good hands and could out jump the best of them, that's what I meant by plax being able to save eli. you want to complain about wide recievers then who do the dolphins have? who do the bucs have? the recieving core for the giants last year looked a lot better then the recievers on the other 2 teams. but whatever we just have to agree to disagree.

I watch every Giants game, every play, three or more times during the week. And I'm not a homer...
But I know you don't know what you're talking about cause you asked why the Giants don't draft receivers. The Giants have been drafting WRs for the past 3 years. Sinorice Moss (round 2), Mario Manningham (3), Steve Smith (2), Hakeem Nicks (1), Ramses Barden (3). The Giants don't overpay for free agents cause they like to develop their young talent. But right now, our receivers aren't showing up. And I'm not saying Eli goes deep every time, he knows how to check it down. I'm just saying, when he does make an amazing throw, his receivers don't help him most of the time. So people look at him and say, he doesn't make big plays, he's a system QB. But only fools can really say that with a straight face. Eli helps the Giants more than people think. Especially in the run game. And he's great at reading blitzes. He's one of 3 active QBs that have thrown for 20 TDs or more the past 3 seasons. Eli, Brady, Preyton. An 87 overall in Madden is fair considering the stretched out overalls. But that's the LEAST he should be.

Finally, Serg u seem like the only one who knows something about Giants football on this board. Majestic is a clear Eli hater when you compare him too Garcia. Yup the Giants have been drafting receivers for the pass 3 years, and nothin has panned out. People on here act like Plaxico was a elite receiver before he came too the Giants, Plaxico didnt put up numbers until he had Eli.

If Eli does struggle next year I wont be surprise. What QB can bounce back from losing his top2 receivers and a 1,000 yard Running back(derrick Ward), but then again Eli always surpirse me. He won a superbowl without Shockey and Tiki Barber. And Had his best season statsically wihtout Plax, making the Pro Bowl and too the best reocrd in the NFC. Unfortunately we ran into the Eagles who is a team that always play us hard. If the Giants could of played any1 else in the playoffs, Giants would of repeated.

Donny,

Bump up Ahmad Bradshaw and look like a genious weeks before you need too. He is going to be getting his fair share of carries with Derrick Ward Gone and he was hurt last year a bit. When he has played he will shine and with Jacobs getting nicked up from being Physical, Bradshaw will be a beast!

Hakeem Nicks has looked like a beast in pre season but I think the stretched out ratings really hurt the NYG WR Corps. It makes it fun to use them and try and be good though. Hopefully they play well and we get some ratings but we aren't there yet.

Other than that stay tuned, I dont use the giants as much as I should but they are my favorite NFL team. They have been Vanilla thus far besides Bradshaw though. Thanks for all you do

ZFarls
Madden Bible

xbox.SFU ExclusiVe wrote:
Another thing. The Giants do not have a dominant defense. They have a dominant front 4, and after that, it goes straight downhill. Their linebacking core, minus Antonio Pierce, is one of the worst in the league, and their secondary is getting old, but they are still above average.

Are you kidding me? Ross is his third year in, Webster is in his 5th year in the nfl. Phillips is in his second year, im pretty sure johnson is only in his second year as well. Dockery and Thomas are very young too...

How is the secondary getting old?

I fail at quoting.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 09/02/2009 15:48:48

forgot about hakeem nicks this year and he is looking decent, still not a number 1 option, the other wrs were drafted in later rounds because plax was around, and you trying to say that plax wasn't a good wr is ridiculous. the only reason plax was a 2 in the steelers offense was because they had hines ward, plax has everything a good wr is supposed to have, great leaping, decent speed, good route running, sure hands. don't think he'll be playing ball again but hey vick is back so you never know, but if he does hopefully he'll go to the eagles or the cowboys so he could show the giants that eli is overrated. I am through with this thread.

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