Roster and Ratings Discussion: New Orleans Saints

Hey guys, we are going to use this thread as the catch all New Orleans Saints roster and ratings discussion. Got a problem with a guy being rated too high or too low, this is the place to speak your mind, but please keep it clean. If there is a guy on your team that’s not in the game, feel free to post that in here as well.

When you bring your argument, make sure you bring stats and provide as much reasoning as possible. Rating s Czar Donny Moore will be stopping by this thread from time to time, so your voice will actually be heard by the guy in charge of making all of the roster and ratings decisions for Madden NFL 10. Make it worthwhile.

If you have any questions, feel free to send me a PM.

i think pierre thomas should have at least an 83 or 84 rating instead of an 80 he has been a solid back the past few years and i dont know his stats but he doesnt get alot of carries but he gets some good yardage

Since the ratings differ by release, I'll refer to the spreadsheet available on the Madden site.

Drew Brees' THA should be a 99
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See Drew Bree's on FSN's Sports Science show. 'Nough said.
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Tracy Porter is WAY too low at a 68 OVR.
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There was talk of Tracy being in the running for defensive rookie of the year before his injury, which actually took place on a play where he recovered ground to make up for the safeties failure to cover the guy deep ( go figure ). Tracy has also looked fabulous in camp and during preseason. He easily warrants an 80 rating as - dare I say - maybe the best up & coming CB in the league?
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Jabari Greer is slightly too low at a 77 OVR.
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Greer has been referred to as one of the best off season pick ups this year. Many Bill's fans were upset to see him let loose. Also, his SPD needs an increase from an 86 - he was a 100m hurdle champion at Tennesee. He too warrants at least an 80 rating.
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Malcolm Jenkins is too high at a 79 OVR.
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Forget the ''he's never given up a TD" stuff Ohio St was pushing out. Check the game tapes or even youtube highlights of Ohio State vs UF in 2006, LSU in 2007, USC & Texas in 2008 - he gave up a TD in each of those games.

His SPD is too high at 86; see his 40 time of 4.6+ on the Ohio St track - which is known as a very fast track - during his Pro Day. Or check out his attempt to keep up on the crossing route against Texas in the 2008 Fiesta Bowl @ the 2:01 mark.

His AWR is too high at 62; see his failure to even think of covering the WR for UF in 2006 NCG. That's him putting his hands on his head... ( 1:34 mark ).

His man-to-man coverage & press is WAY too high at 85 / 88 respectively; MJ in man-to-man vs LSU in the 2007 NCG...

His zone coverage is WAY too high at 90; see MJ fail to stay at home on his half of the field in a Tampa Two coverage by jumping the over-the-top spot on the post route, thereby unable to cover over-the-top on the FB wheel route once the ball is in the air ( first acutal play, he's the safety up top on the video ).

He should probably be ~72 OVR, at best.. He's a 69 on my personal roster, ie. the predicted bust of the draft.
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Reggie Bush is way too high at a 79 OVR.
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His carry should be lower than a 65, maybe even the lowest amoung active RBs. In his career, per NFL.com, he has had 418 attempts and 13 fumbles, for roughly 1 fumble per ~32 attempts. By comparision, Deuce McAlister averaged 1 for every ~71 attempts and LT averages 1 per every ~106 attempts.

His ball carrier vision should be lower than a 70, as its common knowledge he cannot run inside - he bounces everything outside, meaning he either doesn't see the hole or is too scared to get into it.

His juke move should be MUCH lower than 99. His 'moves' consist of a tight spin move, an average stiff arm at best, and a stutter step. Most of what he does is try to out run folks. He's no Barry Sanders for sure, and a 99 juke is something I would expect only Barry to have.

97 ellusiveness is way to high - again, he simply tries to out run people with stop & go's ( in the same direction he was headed ) 98% of the time. I repeat - he is FAR from being Barry Sanders, who is whom I think of with high ellusiveness.

OVR should be roughly a 69 or so for Reggie Bush as a RB.
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Sedrick Ellis is slightly too high at 85 OVR
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Ellis recorded 30 tackles (20 solo) and 4 sacks on a defense that had its ups & downs, but the team was 22nd in the NFL with 28 sacks. While I know Glenn Dorsey has changed positions, by comparision, he had 46 tackles (32 solo) and 1 sack on a team ranked dead last in total defense and dead last in sacks by a margin of 7 at 10 total team sacks. By all accounts, Dorsey had a much better year ( expect to those fans who expect him to single handedly make the Chiefs the best D in the NFL... ). Ellis should be an 83 OVR at best.

While Sedrick needs to be an 83 OVR, his stats do need shuffling; his ACC / AGI is a bit too high as he is slow off the ball and really only bull rushes the QB, but his STR is too low, again, evidence by his bull rushes.
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I think that will do for now!

Your Malcolm Jenkins and Reggie Bush complaints seem to be personal issues you have with the players.

Malcolm's rating is fine, and Bush should be slightly higher. It isnt "common knowledge" that he cant run inside- its "common knowledge" that the Saints offensive line has poor run blocking.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 09/02/2009 18:48:34

I provided stats and examples, so you would be wrong. The only issue I have with those players are that the Saints drafted them and are paying them lots of money to quite frankly, not be good.

Deuce had no problem running behind that line in 2006, while Reggie didn't fair so well. Pierre Thomas has performed much better than Bush behind that same line. Blows away the hyperbole that "the line can't run block".

For MJ, I've given multiple examples of how he was over-hyped ( ie. 'never gave up a touchdown' ). When you consider his 79 OVR rating in the new Madden ratings, its exceedingly high. He's not close to the CB Tracy Porter or Jabari Greer are, nor close to Darren Sharper as a safety. Thus far, he is competing with Randall Gay for the nickle slot, per training camp / preseason.

Sorry, but those are the facts, and the facts say those two just aren't very good players, at least not nearly as good as the ratings they've received. Its ok to be a Saints fan and a realist.

You showed three examples of Jenkins allowing a TD... so? It's not like he's rated a 99 in Madden. He's a 79. So what if the hype of "never gave up a TD" isnt true? 79 is slightly above average for a CB. For someone who was a top CB in college, coming in at a 79 is a good rating.

And he hasnt even played a down yet in the regular season- and youre going to claim it was a wasted pick and that he isnt a very good player? Yeah, that doesnt sound like personal bias AT ALL. So he gave up TDs??? I guess that means you think there are no good CBs anywhere then? Because guess what- they all give up TDs at some point.

As for RB- I dont know why the line blocks better for PT, but many many times there are already defenders in the backfield when Bush gets the handoff- how is that Reggie being a poor RB? And many times he out-runs his blockers, or gets to the hole before it can develop... and as for being not good??? He led the NFL in TDs before being injured last year.

So, if you want to complain about his vision or durability ratings, yeah, there may be some merit to that. But when healthy, Reggie is a huge threat to defenses.

There's a difference between realist and some irrational dislike of a player. You seem to dislike Reggie and Malcolm purely for the hype they received, and in Jenkins' case, you havent even given him a chance to play yet to prove it.

Robert Meachem is a burner and should be reflected as such

wii.Xan369 wrote:Since the ratings differ by release, I'll refer to the spreadsheet available on the Madden site.

Drew Brees' THA should be a 99
-------------------------------------------------------
See Drew Bree's on FSN's Sports Science show. 'Nough said.
-------------------------------------------------------

Tracy Porter is WAY too low at a 68 OVR.
-------------------------------------------------------
There was talk of Tracy being in the running for defensive rookie of the year before his injury, which actually took place on a play where he recovered ground to make up for the safeties failure to cover the guy deep ( go figure ). Tracy has also looked fabulous in camp and during preseason. He easily warrants an 80 rating as - dare I say - maybe the best up & coming CB in the league?
-------------------------------------------------------

Jabari Greer is slightly too low at a 77 OVR.
-------------------------------------------------------
Greer has been referred to as one of the best off season pick ups this year. Many Bill's fans were upset to see him let loose. Also, his SPD needs an increase from an 86 - he was a 100m hurdle champion at Tennesee. He too warrants at least an 80 rating.
-------------------------------------------------------

Malcolm Jenkins is too high at a 79 OVR.
-------------------------------------------------------
Forget the ''he's never given up a TD" stuff Ohio St was pushing out. Check the game tapes or even youtube highlights of Ohio State vs UF in 2006, LSU in 2007, USC & Texas in 2008 - he gave up a TD in each of those games.

His SPD is too high at 86; see his 40 time of 4.6+ on the Ohio St track - which is known as a very fast track - during his Pro Day. Or check out his attempt to keep up on the crossing route against Texas in the 2008 Fiesta Bowl @ the 2:01 mark.

His AWR is too high at 62; see his failure to even think of covering the WR for UF in 2006 NCG. That's him putting his hands on his head... ( 1:34 mark ).

His man-to-man coverage & press is WAY too high at 85 / 88 respectively; MJ in man-to-man vs LSU in the 2007 NCG...

His zone coverage is WAY too high at 90; see MJ fail to stay at home on his half of the field in a Tampa Two coverage by jumping the over-the-top spot on the post route, thereby unable to cover over-the-top on the FB wheel route once the ball is in the air ( first acutal play, he's the safety up top on the video ).

He should probably be ~72 OVR, at best.. He's a 69 on my personal roster, ie. the predicted bust of the draft.
-------------------------------------------------------

Reggie Bush is way too high at a 79 OVR.
-------------------------------------------------------

His carry should be lower than a 65, maybe even the lowest amoung active RBs. In his career, per NFL.com, he has had 418 attempts and 13 fumbles, for roughly 1 fumble per ~32 attempts. By comparision, Deuce McAlister averaged 1 for every ~71 attempts and LT averages 1 per every ~106 attempts.

His ball carrier vision should be lower than a 70, as its common knowledge he cannot run inside - he bounces everything outside, meaning he either doesn't see the hole or is too scared to get into it.

His juke move should be MUCH lower than 99. His 'moves' consist of a tight spin move, an average stiff arm at best, and a stutter step. Most of what he does is try to out run folks. He's no Barry Sanders for sure, and a 99 juke is something I would expect only Barry to have.

97 ellusiveness is way to high - again, he simply tries to out run people with stop & go's ( in the same direction he was headed ) 98% of the time. I repeat - he is FAR from being Barry Sanders, who is whom I think of with high ellusiveness.

OVR should be roughly a 69 or so for Reggie Bush as a RB.
-------------------------------------------------------

Sedrick Ellis is slightly too high at 85 OVR
-------------------------------------------------------

Ellis recorded 30 tackles (20 solo) and 4 sacks on a defense that had its ups & downs, but the team was 22nd in the NFL with 28 sacks. While I know Glenn Dorsey has changed positions, by comparision, he had 46 tackles (32 solo) and 1 sack on a team ranked dead last in total defense and dead last in sacks by a margin of 7 at 10 total team sacks. By all accounts, Dorsey had a much better year ( expect to those fans who expect him to single handedly make the Chiefs the best D in the NFL... ). Ellis should be an 83 OVR at best.

While Sedrick needs to be an 83 OVR, his stats do need shuffling; his ACC / AGI is a bit too high as he is slow off the ball and really only bull rushes the QB, but his STR is too low, again, evidence by his bull rushes.
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I think that will do for now!

well done!! This is perfect example of what really catches your eye when you are reading thru hundreds of posts.

Think you will be happy with roster update #1.

My Saints Roster Adjustments....

I agree with a lot of what wii.Xan369.

Sedrick Ellis
I think Sedrick will prove himself this year, He does need a slight decrease though his power move stat should go up because of his bull rushing style like Xan pointed out. -2 overall

Malcolm Jenkins
As far as Malcolm goes, I do believe that a 79 is too high for him except for the fact that every rookie rating is way to high this year. So unless we are going to lower rookies across the board, I say leave it as is.

Jeremy Shockey
While he's finally back from injury this year and is looking to possibly be back to his NY Giant days as an Elite Tight End in the League, I think he is pretty overrated based on his horrible numbers last year, even if he was plagued with injury. He should be dropped to probably an 82-83 and his injury rating should be lowered. -3 overall

Reggie Bush
Very explosive in the open field, his overall rating I think is right on but I think some of his individual ratings need to be flip flopped. He coughs up the ball way to much in the game. I mean even the slightest hard hit and fumble. So I think his carry rating needs to be raised a bit, I've been averaging about a fumble a game with him if he gets a lot of touches and he only had 3 all year last year. Now his elusiveness could take a couple point hits, while reggie can make almost anyone miss in the open field he isn't all that elusive when there is more than one tackler.

Robert Meachem
I'm okay with all of his attributes but his speed, he should have about a 94-95 speed. He isn't quite as fast as Devery but he's definitely up there... he needs to prove himself this season on the rest of his skills but speed has never been a question for him.

Lance Moore
Deserves an increase, he produced 10 touchdowns for the Saints last year and it is well known that Brees has said he's his favorite target on the field. However, I can hardly ever utilize him because he's never open. Raise his route running and his speed slightly. Check out the highlights here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssutTrUi8D0 +2 overall

Pierre Thomas
Needs a very slight increase, he doesn't have nearly the burst to the hole as he does in real life and he needs to be able to break the occational tackle. Even the smallest cornerbacks seem to take him down when I play. He even gained 15 lbs of muscle mass over the off season in order to power thru more tackles. +3 overall

Johnathan Goodwin
Definitely needs an increase. In order to have the number one offense in the NFL you have to have a good offensive line. Just watch the Lance Moore highlight above and see the excellent protection Drew Brees gets on every single play. Should be a mid 70's player.

Tracy Porter
Still needs an increase, he has been the second brightest spot in our defense since Johnathan Vilma. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UnS0xdUAoo That's only his Saints debut so you can imagine how good he is now that he has developed. Should easily get a +5 increase at least.

Johnathan Vilma
The centerpiece of our defense. Played amazing last year and hasn't lost a step this off season. Already has had an interception during preseason. Deserves a +2 overall.

Marques Colston
Seems underrated to me but that is probably just the homer in me. I'll let him prove himself this year after a year of injuries.

That's all I got for now Donny keep up the good work... Looking forward to the new roster.

Also Mark Brunell has looked IMO horrible in camp and needs a decrease. Making horrible decision throwing way too many picks.

Drew Brees attempted well over 600 passes last season yet he was only sacked 13 times. and the 3 Saints offensive linemen are rated lower than 80, Jon Stinchcomb in my opinion should at least be rated a little higher he is very underated.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 09/05/2009 01:09:21

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0mYw3uoIE8

Malcome Jenkins
YOU WANT STATS YOU WANT HIGHLIGHTS ABOUT MY SAINTS / CALL ME A HOMER MAN DUDE REALLY DUMPED ON JENKINS. Well i look up youtube highlights too see up top. Jenkins had 11 career ints. 2 returned for tds. 1 sack 2 blocked punts 57 tackles 12 behind the line of scrimmage also 12 deflected passes. that one highlight that guy showed of jenkins getting scored on ok in the same gamehe returned int for a td.

Reggie Bush

I will be the first to admit Reggie is not a everydown back but the SAINTS use him as best they can catching out backfield lined up as a widereciver punt returner he is what he is a multi-purpose back defence have to account for him when he is on the field. Its not a opinion of mine it is what it is. It is true to on the game Reggie fumbles 1 or 2 times a game. He is good the way he is except for the fumbles.

Roman Harper

Roman is not that slow I watch him play. I watched him play and seen him run guys down. Most linebackers in the game are faster then him He is also a solid tackler 89 in 08 I dont know how you rate awareness but not many plays get pass him bump up the guy speed just for stats 4 sacks career stats he had a good preseason

Johnathon Villma

Villma had 132 tackles 1 int 1 sack 6 deflected passes the guy is a 2 time pro bowler his speed and awarness need to go up a little 85 speed 95 awarness the guy was all over the field he should be in the top ten of linebackers

P. Thomas
He was very good in offenceive situations 9 tds avg. 4 yards a carry he is too slow at least 88 strenth 85 the guy is a beast

Meechem

plain and simple he is a speed burner 94 or 95 speed

Colsten
DUDE is faster than that yeah he 6'4 215 but 81 speed try 86 check his YAC yards after catch he has break away speed

Lance Moore
you are really down playing this guy 10 tds last season he is the play making wideout for the SAINTS just check out the Vikings and Chargers games for example not just that he had 79 rec. 92 speed their are players and rookies that have not proven themselves with higher catching rating see also ALDRICHDESIGNER highlight reel - catch in traffic 90- just look at the highlights

offence line
Overall we not the best O-line but we gave up only 13 sacks NO we are not Chargers or Giants but they cant hold a block for a second

SAINTS
Overall the SAINTS have the best offence give us our due dont worry about people saying our offence is overated. If you want to go by 08 stats or this preseason ask the Raiders (gnr). Game 4 of Preseason was all back ups. Plus check out our DEFENCE this preseason #3 rank thanks to our new DEFENCIVE Coach Imma wait and hope to see changes. ONE more thing we need one more CB we only have 4 on Madden roster thanks. I know you guys tring to make Madden a realistic sim but the SAINTS are a good team call me a homer or whatever but thats real Imma let our season speak for us.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 09/05/2009 07:17:13

Hello, to all the Saints-fans, this is our year! I have been a die~hard Saints fan all of my life and I only play Sim~style football. Now, after reading these posts there were some great points identified especially the Offensive line play of the Saints we only allowed 13 sacks in 16 games...simply amazing eventhough alot of the credit goes to Drew Brees reading defenses and his quick-release arm. With that being said, these categories should be refined:

~ QB Drew Brees pass release is entirely tooooo slow on this game....he has one of the quicker releases in the game behind QB Peyton Manning ~

~ Offensive line wasn't given the credit they deserved especially for "Pass blocking" being the #1 offense says alot about the line play. Run-blocking, is accurate unfortunately!

~ As far as Bush is concerned, on NFL Network they called him "finess" i totally agree...wow! However, on the game if you think about hit-sticking Bush he will fumble...

; i don't think he is that bad so please increase his carrying attribute. Thanx Donny.

Side note: Hey Donny, i am in the Maddensimplayers league with Coach Ruckus and we all listened in to those radio shows before the release of Madden 10. I think y'all are heading in the right direction....so nothing but praise from me

increase marques colston speed 81 is way to low for a Wr
Shanle is so underated,just read an interview with gregg willians and he told that he is the best lb of the team
devery henderson is a little better look at his numbers from last year 32 rec 793 rec yds 3 tds and a phenomenal 24.8 ydc/rec

The saints have picked up former new England tight end david Thomas thru a trade.

Report: TE David Thomas traded to Saints
Link|Comments (0)Posted by Mike Reiss, Globe Staff September 5, 2009 06:09 PM
The Patriots have traded tight end David Thomas to the New Orleans Saints for a 2011 undisclosed draft choice, ESPN's Adam Schefter reports.

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