The Masters

cem_ea_id.TibMikeD wrote:
Someone in this thread said it best I think when he spoke about the outcome of the "perfect swing". Even if Tiger hit the ball "perfectly" 20 times in a row, it would land within a certain pattern, not in the same location 20 times. The idea is to mimic this effect of human nature that nobody can hit it perfectly every time.

And this is the whole point of many discussions that have happened in these forums.We all know what those are.I'm not going to start another.

The trick is to bring the "effect of human nature" into play some how.
Whether it be a random landing area or some other device,it is needed.And it needs to be something that people can't just find a quick work around for.
At least it might stop the incredible amount of hole outs that happen.

Of course you guys get the big bucks to figure that out...lol

I don't know if this applies to the topic at hand but I always seem to have problems with accuracy on elevated greens. Somehow, my shot comes up 50 to 75 yards short just because the green is on an elevated slope. Theres one particular green that I can always count on missing so I just plan to hit out of the bunker from the start.

I've always been a proponent of the random landing area going back some 3 years ago. Anyone who played TW07 experienced it and it required you to play the course much more like a real pro approaches the game. With a 20 yard wide circle on expert pins you have the option of going for the pin and seeing that the circle also could land you in a bunker -or- you play to the middle of the green and pretty much guarantee a longer putt. We could go into how landing in the bunker in this game really isn't much tougher than a long putt, but we'll save that discussion for another time.

I think the biggest thing to take into consideration on making changes to the game is how well that change stays true to the sport.

One thing you may consider is how the pros play a tee shot or an approach shot while you watch them play on TV. The first thing that jumps out at you is that the pro's don't get to hop in a helicoptor and see exactly where their shot will land. No, they will visualize their shot and general pick some point of reference like a tree and aim at that. It is quite possible that eliminating the "zoom" along with some random spray would to well to make the game play much more realistic (tour mode, arcade folks won't appreciate this). Secondly going along with this same thought is that most pro's will hit shots with an intentional fade or draw. Especially on approach shots as most pro greens just wouldn't hold a ball if you hit it dead on. Where the pro's miss is that calculating the right amount of fade/draw is just a guess. In the game, you can basicaly see exactly where your fade/draw will land and also that more often than not there is no real advantage to performing this shot as a straight on hit will not roll through the green.

So in summary, yes, because we can't imititate all the minor intracacies of a golf swing with a controller, a random landing area (based on skill levels, club chosen, and shot type) would do well to add some realism to the game. But I'd also take it a step further with the "zoom", the fade/draw aiming and physics, as well as other items people have mentioned here like gusting winds, approximate wind speeds, less ball lie info, and tougher putting.

Good discussion guys, hope my thoughts make some sense.

cem_ea_id.SwAeromotion wrote:The distance shown is where the ball will land after roll on a 100% swing rolling through the fairway to a flat lie with no elevation change and no loft change to your club. IT is NOT how far the ball flies in the air.

Then that is total bs. When a golfer says he hits an 8 iron 170 yards, that means he flies it 170 yards. Golfers want to know their carry distance so they can pick the right club. Tour pros know within the exact yard, sometimes less, how far they will carry each of their clubs. If a club says it will go 200 yards, it should carry 200 yards.

BTW, Tiger needs his iron distances boosted on the game. You guys make hime look weak saying his 6 iron goes 181, which in the terms stated above will only go about 165.

This may sound different, but has there been any thought to having to use both thumbsticks to swing?

Not quite sure exactly how it'd work... but think about it... in golf you have 2 feet, 2 hips, 2 shoulders, 2 arms, 2 hands...


Perhaps the left stick goes up at the same time the right stick goes down, and then you follow thru... and you can reverse it...


Meh might mess everyone up... but I feel like that'd add a little more feel to it...


If that's a crappy idea, perhaps utilizing the second stick to influence a little extra zip?

For instance, can't pros control the spin to some degree (wedges shots)? If they swing harder, the ball doesn't necessarily go that much farther on a sand wedge, but higher and more spin?

I think that would be interesting in tour pro if you had to perhaps "slap" the right stick forward at impact... and the timing of that influenced spin... instead of having to use the loft stick...


I realize this may be slightly off topic, but perhaps instituting something like this may cause more variation in ball trajectory and direction at impact and therefore randomize landing...

Creating a random landing zone takes a lot of the skill out of the game. While I will concede that if Tiger took 20 swings they would most likely land in 20 different spots. I can guarantee that the majority of the time his 20 shots are going to be closer than anyone else's.

Let's say Player A makes a perfect swing on a par 3 and ends up 2 feet from the pin. Player B does the EXACT same thing that Player A does and his ball goes in the hole. This is what you guys want? I don't understand how that would be fair at all (in Amateur Mode).

I enjoy both Tour mode and Am mode...if you're going to create a random landing zone, do it for Tour Pro and leave amateur alone.

I tend to agree with you Erickson that a complete random outcome for every shot you make isn't the best answer to a game where skill should have it's rewards.

In real life, making the perfect golf swing is one of the most challenging things of any sport. In the current version of TW, pulling down and up of a joystick is one of the easiest things to do. The only real limiter in the game is judging wind, lie, and elevation. If you wanted to truly duplicate the difficulty of a real golf swing through a joystick you would need to couple it would a series of timed button presses that would surely turn most consumers away from the game.

So what is needed is something that is accessible to the masses yet challenging for the hardcore. It seems odd that right now the game does seem to have that for the masses with Amateur mode, yet we still find most of the hardcore players choosing that over Tour Pro. Maybe if EA would find a way to make Tour Pro something more hardcore players could sink their teeth into by offering a good skill-based challenge we could have something for everyone.

So going to the random landing zone, we could find a way to have something skill-based which would reward a good shot yet not be so simple that would allow laser accuracy as we have now. Couple things come to mind on this.

1. Utilizing the aiming circle where the ball could land randomly anywhere inside. Once you go back to your golfer at the tee or fairway lie you would have some type of icon circle with a fast moving dot moving about inside it. Time your swing when the dot is perfectly centered and you've hit that perfect shot. The worse it's off center, the more likely your shot will err by a factor dependent on your aiming circle size (obviously larger circles for longer clubs).

-or-

2. Like Links golf, you incorporarate clubhead speed into the shot. The speed which you move your joystick determines clubhead speed. It was rare you could produce consistent speeds in that game and the alterations would have subtle effects on distance. You'd still need something to affect left/right errors too.

-or-

3. Others have mentioned, but maybe incorporating the right stick during the swing for an added element of timing. If the right stick comes down late or early you would get a small degree of left/right pull of the ball.


Whatever is utilized, it must be difficult enough that even the hardcore could hit that perfect shot every time or you're basically back to laser golf again which really fails in the realism department.

Oblong,

I favor 1 & 2, but I believe using more than one stick may be a bit much for most users. It did not work for ProStroke Golf and I fear it would turn users away from TW....but ideas 1&2 are very good.

MAIN.EAcom Golf Tim wrote:Oblong,
but I believe using more than one stick may be a bit much for most users. It did not work for ProStroke Golf and I fear it would turn users away from TW.

I played ProStroke Golf and used the 2nd stick for increased power and I thought it worked quite well (it was really not that hard to master) What did you not like about it?


-MERACE

MAIN.EAcom Golf Tim wrote:Oblong,

I favor 1 & 2, but I believe using more than one stick may be a bit much for most users. It did not work for ProStroke Golf and I fear it would turn users away from TW....but ideas 1&2 are very good.

Well, it'd certainly be harder... which is what we're trying to achieve (#3).

Have you done extensive testing with accomplished TW users?

Perhaps it could be another difficulty kind of like no greengrid...

I personally need the greengrid to putt else it's ugly...


Has the thought to some sort of coloring/contour system (i.e. wii sports) been discussed? Where you see an overall trend to the break, but not the specificity on random lines like you do with the grid?

xbox.CuseHokie wrote:
Has the thought to some sort of coloring/contour system (i.e. wii sports) been discussed? Where you see an overall trend to the break, but not the specificity on random lines like you do with the grid?

I've suggested that previously and I agree that it works quite well in Wii sports golf.


-MERACE

xbox.MERACE wrote:

MAIN.EAcom Golf Tim wrote:Oblong,
but I believe using more than one stick may be a bit much for most users. It did not work for ProStroke Golf and I fear it would turn users away from TW.

I played ProStroke Golf and used the 2nd stick for increased power and I thought it worked quite well (it was really not that hard to master) What did you not like about it?


-MERACE

Never played it, but the game never did well with such a complicated swing. IOW, it did not work for the mass market.

xbox.CuseHokie wrote:

Perhaps it could be another difficulty kind of like no greengrid...

I personally need the greengrid to putt else it's ugly...

You really need higher resolution green textures as well as more camera options in order to make grid-less greens a viable option for most users....

MAIN.EAcom Golf Tim wrote:
Never played it, but the game never did well with such a complicated swing. IOW, it did not work for the mass market.

I don't think it was the "complicated swing" (like I said previously it was not very hard to master) that was the reason for it not succeeding in the market. I believe it was due to the timing of when it came out (people were shying away from Xbox games in favor of Xbox 360 games), poor marketing (very little advertising for the game) and certainly, EA Tiger Woods dominance in the marketplace. Of course this is just my opinion.

-MERACE

How bout let us go back to shaping are shot's with the stick instead of allowing us to use R1 and L1 to fade and draw,this is a total lack of using the swing stick since most players on tour fade and draw using their swing , we should be able to put draw and fade with shape on the stick instead of using R1 or L1 .