The Masters

I have no problem with the club distances, they work fine for me in TW 10. Just please keep the powercap code that allows me to cap my club distances at a realistic level.

One observation: there is too much of a pitching distance gap between the PW and the rest of the wedges. One can pitch 60 yards with a PW, yet the other wedges allow for pitches of 34, 28, 22 etc.

cem_ea_id.baangus wrote:I have no problem with the club distances, they work fine for me in TW 10. Just please keep the powercap code that allows me to cap my club distances at a realistic level.

I have come to hate Powercap mode as it does reduce the distances, but it also reduces the ball flight on many shots to the point where the ball flight is unrealistically low, especially on fairway woods. On many shots from the fairway, the 3W and 5W play like high punch shots and there is too much roll. Powercap should reduce the distances, but not reduce the height on ball flight IMO...if the club distances are correct, and the difficulty of longer irons increased, there should be no need for Powercapping...

MAIN.EAcom Golf Tim wrote:if the club distances are correct, and the difficulty of longer irons increased, there should be no need for Powercapping...

With the present attribute setup, powercapping is an absolute necessity. As the power attribute increases, so does the max default distance on all clubs. I've never played a golf game where my default driver distance is 300+ yards (let alone 350+ as is the case in TW) and I don't ever intend to. I use the powercap feature to limit my default driver distance to around 270 yards.

As for iron difficulty: due to an imbalance in the way the club tuner was programmed, the sweetspots on the various catagories of clubs are all different. And because of that, the irons in TW 10 are by far the most difficult clubs to tune and use. The sweetspot on the wedges are the most forgiving, while the sweetspot on the irons, especially from the rough, is the least forgiving. If you're having an easy time with your irons and with GIRs, head to the club tuner and lower the sweetspot on your irons way down. I guarantee you won't be hitting many greens after that.

cem_ea_id.baangus wrote:
With the present attribute setup, powercapping is an absolute necessity. As the power attribute increases, so does the max default distance on all clubs. I've never played a golf game where my default driver distance is 300+ yards (let alone 350+ as is the case in TW) and I don't ever intend to. I use the powercap feature to limit my default driver distance to around 270 yards.

Then the attribute system needs to be overhauled. In TW08 PC, the MAX driver distance is 302-308 (assuming you chose a character with default Pro attributes) yards depending upon the club shaft type and driver head. RARELY if ever, do you see the distances in TW08 PC get anywhere close to the distances in TW10.

cem_ea_id.baangus wrote:As for iron difficulty: due to an imbalance in the way the club tuner was programmed, the sweetspots on the various catagories of clubs are all different. And because of that, the irons in TW 10 are by far the most difficult clubs to tune and use. The sweetspot on the wegdes are the most forgiving, while the sweetspot on the irons, especially from the rough, is the least forgiving. If you're having an easy time with your irons and with GIRs, head to the club tuner and lower the sweetspot on your irons way down. I guarantee you won't be hitting many greens after that.

Like Oblong, the difficulty of hitting a 1 iron is roughly the same as a SW or PW in TW10. The difficulty of hitting a good shot as you decrease loft should INCREASE accordingly. I have my sweet spots tuned the same on Woods and irons, so reducing the sweetspot is not the answer. I want to be reasonably assure I have a chance to hit the shot straight and reducing the sweetspot lowers this ability when it should be the tempo that is more affected by increasing the sweetspot instead of worrying about whether I am going to shank even though my swing using the analog stick is straight or reasonably straight. IOW, the left to right and right to left mishit penalty is more penal than it should be and the lack of tempo mishit penalty is not severe enough. IMO...

BTW, the Club Tuner is an exceptional feature -- absolutely the best addition ever to TW golf, apart from the course architect in the PC version. I'd even go so far as to say it's the best feature/option that's ever been included in any console sports game to date.

I was able to fine-tune my clubs so as to get a perfect and even distance gap between them all, and at the same time adjust the sweetspots on the various clubs to completely suit my game. Please, whatever you decide to do with club distances Mike, don't take that feature out. It's an amazing tool.

MAIN.EAcom Golf Tim wrote:Then the attribute system needs to be overhauled.

I'm a realist. That's simply not going to happen. This is TW golf for the console, not the PC. The attraction for many console gamers is the ability to drive the ball 400 yards. Meaning, the powercap feature becomes an absolute necessity for older guys like myself who prefer to try and keep club distances authentic.

MAIN.EAcom Golf Tim wrote:Like Oblong, the difficulty of hitting a 1 iron is roughly the same as a SW or PW in TW10. The difficulty of hitting a good shot as you decrease loft should INCREASE accordingly.

You haven't spent time testing and lowering the sweetspot on your irons down, have you? I'm serious: give it a try and then tell me how easy it is to hit the green from the fairway with a 1 iron. And hitting that same shot from the rough becomes virtually impossible.

You're correct that there should be a noticable the increase in difficulty with the longer irons. I agree with that. However, that's already built into the game programming, in part at least. Tune your sweetspot down, and a 220 yd iron from the fairway becomes an extremely difficult shot. Meanwhile, a 130 yd iron shot will be almost as difficult to pull off by virtue of the reduced sweetspot. You will though have an easier time hitting the green in the latter case, given you're that much closer to it.

cem_ea_id.baangus wrote:I'm a realist. That's simply not going to happen. This is TW golf for the console, not the PC.

Why not? I and many others here in these very forums have been BEGGING EA to make TW more realistic for consoles. they have EVERYTHING already in the game to do this. And to be frank, I am a realist almost to a fault. If the game represents the PGA TOUR, then it should damn well play like a PGA TOUR game with realistic gameplay and scoring. I am not asking for something that EA has already done in the past. Now they have the chance to appeal to an even broader market if they will simply do it.

cem_ea_id.baangus wrote:The attraction for many console gamers is the ability to drive the ball 400 yards. Meaning, the powercap feature becomes an absolute necessity for older guys like myself who prefer to try and keep club distances authentic.

A simulation mode would give those users looking for a more realistic experience and the need for a "Powercap" would be moot. 400+ yard drives and holeouts every other hole is purely arcade and has no relationship to the PGA TOUR or the integrity of that game.

MAIN.EAcom Golf Tim wrote:Why not? I and many others here in these very forums have been BEGGING EA to make TW more realistic for consoles.

Oh, it would be great to see a true sim console game along the lines of the PC version. But I don't see it happening. Sim cyber golfers make up a tiny portion of the console gaming public. It's why the PC version of the game was discontinued -- not enough sim golfers out there to justify keeping the PC series alive.

TW 10 for me is a pretty good game for a console golf game. It's quite playable this year because I'm able to use the club tuner to make the game difficult enough to justify spending time playing it. The new putting system is a challenging addition as well. Previous versions of the game were simply too easy. If I'm able to cap all my attributes in TW 11 -- the one option missing this year -- I'll be entirely happy with that. As I said, I'm a realist, and I know the console version will always be geared more towards the 90% of the customer base who prefer tattooed golfers with pink spiked hair who can drive the ball 400 yards.

Besides, the new TW online component was implemented to cater to PC sim crowd. If cyber golfers want realism, it's available there. Another reason I don't expect much to change with the console version.

cem_ea_id.baangus wrote:
Oh, it would be great to see a true sim console game along the lines of the PC version. But I don't see it happening. Sim cyber golfers make up a tiny portion of the console gaming public. It's why the PC version of the game was discontinued -- not enough sim golfers out there to justify keeping the PC series alive.

Categorically untrue. You should see how many posts from users in the TW Online Beta asking for more simulation-like features. And the PC version was not discontinued for the lack of sim golfers. It missed the 09 version so EA could re-think their PC Golf strategy and TW Online is shaping up very nicely. And the TW Online Dev Team is listening to the community feedback and delivering features requested by the community.

cem_ea_id.baangus wrote:Besides, the new TW online component was implemented to cater to PC sim crowd. If cyber golfers want realism, it's available there. Another reason I don't expect much to change with the console version.

If you are referring to the Extreme tournaments, those are hardly catering to the Sim crowd. The conditions of these tournaments are ridiculous (mainly the Gusty winds). And it is one tournament per day. Hardly catering to the sim crowd. If they take the extreme tournaments, make the weather something approaching what you would find in real life, then have a simulation mode (in addition to the arcade gameplay already in the game) with better green textures and cameras, then putting without a grid would be a fair and meaningful feature. Again, everything needed for a simulation-style of gameplay is ALREADY IN THE GAME. All they have to do is allow it to happen.

MAIN.EAcom Golf Tim wrote:Categorically untrue. You should see how many posts from users in the TW Online Beta asking for more simulation-like features. And the PC version was not discontinued for the lack of sim golfers. It missed the 09 version so EA could re-think their PC Golf strategy and TW Online is shaping up very nicely. And the TW Online Dev Team is listening to the community feedback and delivering features requested by the community.

Again, sim golfers and the people on these sports forums who discuss sim gaming, make up only a tiny portion of the gaming public. The vast majority of console gamers are young people, and console games like Tiger Woods and Madden have always catered to that teenage, arcade gamer crowd. That's the way it's always been with console games, and with few exceptions -- MLB: The Show is the only one that comes to mind.

It's great that the TW developers are adding a few features and modes that help make the TW console series play more sim than it has in the past. That's all I hope for. I have no illusions. This series is a money maker for EA exactly because it's not representative of the PGA and PGA golf. Young kids don't care about the PGA and realistic sand save percentages, they care about hitting the ball a mile and shooting -40.

MAIN.EAcom Golf Tim wrote:Again, everything needed for a simulation-style of gameplay is ALREADY IN THE GAME. All they have to do is allow it to happen.

The game plays sim enough for me right now, yes, with the exception of the increasing club distances and accuracy as attributes increase. If powercapping all attributes is allowed in TW 11, that'll be good enough for me. That way both types of gamers can have their cake -- people like me who have no interest in hitting 350 yd drives, and those who do.

MAIN.EAcom Golf Tim wrote:Again, everything needed for a simulation-style of gameplay is ALREADY IN THE GAME. All they have to do is allow it to happen.

This is what I've been seeing for a couple of years with this game, especially this year! The ingredients are in the cubboard, they just haven't been added to the soup yet! I think you and Oblong are all over it with your distance/accuracy/trajectory observations.

It is too easy to hit Drivers and long irons great distances with wedge like accuracy in this game. I have no fear when trying to hit a driver 100%. I know I can get away with tempo and balance ecxcesses so why not swing away? I'm averaging 315 yards off the tee with my 10 (avg) power attribute player and clubs tuned to 87% power!? To add insult to injury, I'm hitting over 70% FIR's with that average... and that's with my having my sweetspot tuned to 19% so I'll miss a fairway or two!

The way I see it, a 12 power attribute with a club tuned to 100% power (and I won't touch the club tuning debate at this point), should average 315 yards off the tee. This would be in line with the PGA Tour leader in this category.

As Tim, and others have pointed out... the fairway woods have far too flat a trajectory. I don't carry one because I can't play them the way my golf mind tells me they should be played. I can make my 1-iron produce a shot more like a 3-wood than the 3-wood itself.

Tempo needs to be the most important factor in the shot power/club distance equation. Right now, it doesn't appear to even be a variable in that equation!

MAIN.JCauthen04 wrote:It is too easy to hit Drivers and long irons great distances with wedge like accuracy in this game. I have no fear when trying to hit a driver 100%. I know I can get away with tempo and balance ecxcesses so why not swing away? I'm averaging 315 yards off the tee with my 10 (avg) power attribute player and clubs tuned to 87% power!? To add insult to injury, I'm hitting over 70% FIR's with that average... and that's with my having my sweetspot tuned to 19% so I'll miss a fairway or two!

Sorry, but there's simply no reason for complaints like this. Lower your sweetspot until it's no longer that easy. Lower your sweetspot to 0, and you won't be able to hit a fairway or green. I guarantee it.

One thing this game very well -- better than any console or PC golf game has ever done IMO -- is provide the user with the ability (club tuner) to make driving and fairway shots as easy or as difficult as one wishes.

cem_ea_id.baangus wrote:Sorry, but I read comments like this and it drives me a bit batty. There's simply no reason for complaints like this. Lower your sweetspot until it's no longer that easy. Lower your sweetspot to 0, and you won't be able to hit a fairway or green. I guarantee it.

I see your point baangus... I even feel like a dingbat reading back over it I didn't qualify what I said. I do play with a 12% sweetspot in my offline career mode season, where I'm hitting 54% FIR's and 64% GIRs. I can tweak the game to play more difficult in my own *house rules* world, but I don't have a snowball's chance in Hades online with them in effect. I would like to be able to play in live tournaments and online matches, knowing that everyone was playing under constraints that would yield more realistic results.

One thing this game very well -- better than any console or PC golf game has ever done IMO -- is provide the user with the ability (club tuner) to make driving and fairway shots as easy or as difficult as one wishes.

True! It does do this better than most, but I would argue that Links 2004 still did it better... it required tempo in the swing, even though it didn't have as many tweaking and tuning options. If you held your attibute levels down below 20, you could get a realistic result, with tempo, in Links 2004. I would just like to see the game adopt some sort of convention to where we could achieve a more realistic challenge in the game's online modes of play.