cem_ea_id.davy1960hill wrote:Great summing up of the whole thing, Glen (SirP)

If I hear the words "after the initial release" one more time, I swear.....


Oh yeah, I had my appendix out the other day, The Surgeon sent me home, blood and wriggly bits hanging out all over the place, i said hey MAN - what about some stitches??? Well he said I hadnt SPECIFIED stitches when I agreed to have my appendix out, but now that I am complaining well, just maybe I can have it ..... later...

So I jumped in a cab and told the driver my address, the driver reached over and took $50 out of my wallet, then sat there and read the paper. I said "arent you gonna drive me to my house?" he said"well you didnt SPECIFY that. He said he would drive me home... one day.....

for gods sake EA this is seriously insulting now. This was supposed to be for the PC Golfers.. remember - the guys who bought your product year in year out until you dumped them with no more product? Now we have this arcade rubbish that we could have got if we wanted to play on a console... SORRY but I have been "nice" and "patient" for ages now - when I am bullshitted enough, I get a little tetchy.....

Is anyone at TWO prepared to give an HONEST response to these questions, that were ALWAYS the big questions, the questions you have skirted around now for months on end because we - the customers, are TOO THICK to be told anything about your plans ???:

* Will there be a course architect (or similar ability for custom courses)?
* If so ..WHEN?
* Will there be a turn based multiplayer?
* If so ..WHEN?
* Will there be different levels of play (like the old novice, intermediate, Advanced and Expert modes)?
* If so ..WHEN?
* Will there be user set tournaments?
* If so ..WHEN?
* Will there be multiplay options for: alt Shot, 4 ball, Stableford, Skins etc?
* If so ..WHEN?
* Will the 3 click meter be speeded up so that a 4 year old cant score 24 under?
* If so ..WHEN?
* How are you going to charge for players to play this game? How much and with what sort of structurE?

And one big question:

* Is EA sports, who have supposedly just laid off a large number of employees, abandoning the whole TW Series, meaning you guys are possibly out of a job and this has been a phenominal waste of time?

I await an honest, transparent and complete reponse.

Thank you in anticipation (and one last attempt at patience).

Davy

Well said Davy....couldn't have put it better myself. Now....let's see if we get ANY response from the dev team. The answers to these questions will have a HUGE impact on the number of "Subscriptions" to this game...........

cem_ea_id.davy1960hill wrote:Great summing up of the whole thing, Glen (SirP)

If I hear the words "after the initial release" one more time, I swear.....


Oh yeah, I had my appendix out the other day, The Surgeon sent me home, blood and wriggly bits hanging out all over the place, i said hey MAN - what about some stitches??? Well he said I hadnt SPECIFIED stitches when I agreed to have my appendix out, but now that I am complaining well, just maybe I can have it ..... later...

So I jumped in a cab and told the driver my address, the driver reached over and took $50 out of my wallet, then sat there and read the paper. I said "arent you gonna drive me to my house?" he said"well you didnt SPECIFY that. He said he would drive me home... one day.....

for gods sake EA this is seriously insulting now. This was supposed to be for the PC Golfers.. remember - the guys who bought your product year in year out until you dumped them with no more product? Now we have this arcade rubbish that we could have got if we wanted to play on a console... SORRY but I have been "nice" and "patient" for ages now - when I am bullshitted enough, I get a little tetchy.....

Is anyone at TWO prepared to give an HONEST response to these questions, that were ALWAYS the big questions, the questions you have skirted around now for months on end because we - the customers, are TOO THICK to be told anything about your plans ???:

* Will there be a course architect (or similar ability for custom courses)?
* If so ..WHEN?
* Will there be a turn based multiplayer?
* If so ..WHEN?
* Will there be different levels of play (like the old novice, intermediate, Advanced and Expert modes)?
* If so ..WHEN?
* Will there be user set tournaments?
* If so ..WHEN?
* Will there be multiplay options for: alt Shot, 4 ball, Stableford, Skins etc?
* If so ..WHEN?
* Will the 3 click meter be speeded up so that a 4 year old cant score 24 under?
* If so ..WHEN?
* How are you going to charge for players to play this game? How much and with what sort of structurE?

And one big question:

* Is EA sports, who have supposedly just laid off a large number of employees, abandoning the whole TW Series, meaning you guys are possibly out of a job and this has been a phenominal waste of time?

I await an honest, transparent and complete reponse.

Thank you in anticipation (and one last attempt at patience).

Davy

Uh oh, Greg............now you've done it!. You went and got Davy pissed off.................... watch yer back, buddy!

I feel the need to clarify my previous post about Turn-Based Mulitplayer.

I never said there will be no Turn-Based Multiplayer in TWO.

What was said is that it was not planned to be included for our inital launch of the product. We built this title from the ground up while incorporating brand-new cutting edge technology to allow us to stream TWO through a browser. We never planned to launch with every single feature that was in TW 08 PC; but we always planned to create a framework that would allow us to steadily add those features over time. Keep in mind that sales of TW PC were on a steady decline, with TW 08 PC being the last PC title in the series. We had no choice due to the market conditions but to take a radically new and different approach to the series. We feel that the direction we are headed with TWO is new and fresh enough to capture a much wider audience. That's not to say that we've forgotten our most loyal and hardcore fans of the PC title. We simply need to focus on building an experience and a platform that can evolve and grow over time. If we did not take the time to build this new platform and technology, then the TW series on PC would stagnate and die, and I don't think any of us want to see that happen.

The inital launch of TWO is only phase one and features will be rolling out throughout the lifecycle of the product. I only ask that those of you who feel the game doesn't measure up to your expectations to stick around after we release it and watch as it grows and evolves. I do not expect you to pay for a product you don't believe in, but without your feedbback and support, this product will never become the game you want it to be.

I'm going to repost a blog I wrote very early in the development of TWO which I think explains our rationale behind the product.

http://insideblog.easports.com/archive/2009/06/19/tiger-woods-pga-tour-online-why-we-created-an-online-only-version-of-tiger.aspx

"The inital launch of TWO is only phase one and features will be rolling out throughout the lifecycle of the product. I only ask that those of you who feel the game doesn't measure up to your expectations to stick around after we release it and watch as it grows and evolves. I do not expect you to pay for a product you don't believe in, but without your feedbback and support, this product will never become the game you want it to be. "


So you are saying that we don't have to pay till we think it's a product we believe in? Or just stick around and pay, pay, pay till we get what we want?
Until I can see the person that I am playing with and not that damn arc bs, also be able to turn off the damn music I wouldn't pay 1 penny for this game

cem_ea_id.EA_GregRinaldi wrote:I feel the need to clarify my previous post about Turn-Based Mulitplayer.

I never said there will be no Turn-Based Multiplayer in TWO.

The inital launch of TWO is only phase one and features will be rolling out throughout the lifecycle of the product. I only ask that those of you who feel the game doesn't measure up to your expectations to stick around after we release it and watch as it grows and evolves. I do not expect you to pay for a product you don't believe in, but without your feedbback and support, this product will never become the game you want it to be.

I'm going to repost a blog I wrote very early in the development of TWO which I think explains our rationale behind the product.

http://insideblog.easports.com/archive/2009/06/19/tiger-woods-pga-tour-online-why-we-created-an-online-only-version-of-tiger.aspx

When your tween and teen target audience fails to materialize how long before you dump the game again?

Quote myself: "I await an honest, transparent and complete reponse"

(to the 14 questions I posted, which have been the crux of questions from the "loyal and hard core")

My bad - this topic is about only one of the things i asked about. I must say I have yet to dfind the forum where i will get and honest, transparent and complete response, so can someone post the link to it?

We are still being treated like mushrooms, the replies sound like politician-speak and people like Tim (who has been incredibly helpful and patient with me throughout these betas) struggle to give some hope through the tight gag they have imposed upon them.

Please tell me where to post my 14 questionswhere they will get answered - I believe ALL of the "loyal and hard core" are desperately wanting the answers.

Cheers,

Davy

cem_ea_id.CasinoEyes1 wrote:What Poker game was that ??? Looks really good. As for TWO, I think everything will b ok. It just needs more time to develop. At least the features and fixes get done, while we are sleeping. So, be patient.

PKR.COM It's great, the players can chat to each other and you can even emote in your own language.

davy let me take a stab at answering your questions

keep in mind this is just what i pick up in the responses from EA
these are only half-educated guesses

1) CA is probably a "no" for quite awhile. i think to get everyones games on EA's servers is the furthest thing from their minds right now

2) turnbased MP yes its coming. Greg mentioned it would be out shortly after the holidays (i think thats what he said) no matter when it comes, EA knows its a big deal

3) different levels of play i think what you see is what you get. IMO i dont think they are needed. we already have the
option to set up a game all most any way we like to. i understand why you ask but i dont think EA is going there

4) user set tourny yes they are coming when--not a clue

5) multiplay options i cant see why not, so thats a yes when--sometime around the release of turnbased multiplay. the sooner the better. EA cant sit on their hands with this one

6) 3-click speeding up i would say no. EA is looking at other ways to increase difficulty

7) pay structure i dont know if you received the survey from EA, but it was kinda covered there. you can buy per few games, monthly, yearly. as for the cost? reasonable for most people

THE BIG QUESTION EA has locked Tiger into a contract for a few more years. they have also spend alot of money to develop a web-based infrastructure. NEED FOR SPEED ONLINE is coming out next. so TWO is just not the only test bed. in fact TWO is probably the first of its kind and your lucky to say "i was there at the beginning"
IMO this is the new future in gaming and in ten years it just may be huge. just think of all the people with iphones (and other like it) that will have the ability to play anywhere and anytime. well im pretty sure you cant play the game on one now but technology will soon get there. im sure EA has already thought about that and is supporting the development

http://qifanabki.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/head-in-hands.jpg

cem_ea_id.davy1960hill wrote:Quote myself: "I await an honest, transparent and complete reponse"

(to the 14 questions I posted, which have been the crux of questions from the "loyal and hard core")

My bad - this topic is about only one of the things i asked about. I must say I have yet to dfind the forum where i will get and honest, transparent and complete response, so can someone post the link to it?

We are still being treated like mushrooms, the replies sound like politician-speak and people like Tim (who has been incredibly helpful and patient with me throughout these betas) struggle to give some hope through the tight gag they have imposed upon them.

Please tell me where to post my 14 questionswhere they will get answered - I believe ALL of the "loyal and hard core" are desperately wanting the answers.

Cheers,

Davy

your questions wont get answered because at this time EA does not have a time frame as to when the items will be included,after release is all your going to get,EA cant know how long the will take to code and interface with the game,they have never done this sort of thing before.

I appreciate that EA made a clear statement r/g this issue because for me this is the main feature (turn.based multiplayer) isn't available, TWO is not an option for me.

If that is the case then it couldnt come from someone at EA?

If I was the CEO of a company, and one of my Senior staff said he did not have a time frame for essential elements of the product, and was intending to release the product anyway, guess what I would do? Sorry Carn but i just don't buy that.

Also if it is the case it seems to have dissapointed the "loyal hard-core" players who have received little of what THEY wanted. Perhaps releasing a product before it is fully developed is simply a DUMB IDEA - but then it's only the customers who feel that way and ..well why should they matter?

Ok its a trick question and the answer is that, without customers (especially the loyal ones) there can be no product.

This has (for whatever reason.. perhaps internal politics at EA) gone from being touted as the new game for the PC players to the new game for everyone - especially the console "casual" players who are quite happy to all reach scores of 24 under and gasp in awe when someone shoots 25 under.

Very little has been achieved for the serious "sim" golfer - the loyal ones...

I know a lot has been done, and a lot of great work in making a product from the ground up, but - for for gods sake if it requires a 12 or 18 month period of beta's to make the game viable then why in the **** release it before?

What's that you say? someone high up in EA wants to see dollars coming in the door? Try asking them for just how long they would like to see those dollars keep coming in for. The greater community of TW golfers are mostly not in this Beta. They are all passionate about playing their courses and tournaments (currently in TW08 ) and want to be able to continue.

EA need to start being transparent and open, they need to answer many more questions, like "when will the TW08 server be shut down?" to keep the loyal hard core players informed and to have any chance of keeping them as customers. They need to treat us with the respect that loyalty demands.

If the lack of information continues and the server goes down without warning, none of those players will be coming to TWO.

I agree big time Davey with the last statement you made. We want to know how long they will keep the servers up?
If they keep them up for some time, I for one would hang in there, and when they get things that us loyal PC customers want I would most likely join up. But if, they just shut down the servers, I for one will be turned off. This is a very big issue for us loyal customers and after all the disappointing things we have heard lately, keeping the servers going would renew my faith in EA.. What say you?

I mean no disrespect Suda but have you played any of the other TW pc games online? The reason I ask is that this game does NOT offer any way besides conditions to make the game more challenging that is why they HAD different levels: novice intermediate advanced and expert, novice was just that an easy game to play with a slow meter and a big sweet spot when you got to expert there was no shot path (you had to use the overhead to judge landing zones) no grids extremely fast swing speed in 3 click and missed sweet spots which were much smaller caused wayward shots both in 3 click and TS. There was no adding spin besides the use of the slider and different balls and clubs. This is what we need.
As far as the course designer goes this was what kept TW going period.Custom courses were played by far more than stock. There are several reasons for this 1) playing the same courses over and over gets boring while there is 100's of courses from custom designers.2) A lot of the custom courses were better made than stock, what I mean by better is that pins are not place on ridiculous slopes or unplayable spots. PGAX DESIGN TEAM designs courses that the PGA TOUR play EVERY WEEK. The conditions for the greens is its always played on very dry,therefore the pins must be put in a playable location. Now every now and then there may be a few questionable pins but nowhere near as many as stock courses have. So I think EA had better not brush off the importance of the course design tool. Custom set tournaments is also very important for the community there are a number of communities besides PGAX that have their OWN tournaments again this is important to build the community.

I realize that you stated that you are just making half educated guesses but that is not what we need right now.

Honestly........and I will be honest. I have completed 51 rounds so far during this beta. Might not be a lot compared to some. Yet, I admit that I am bored with the game already. Three of the six courses offered right now are all courses that have been stock courses for many years. If you only get one new course per month after the release I think many besides myself will get bored rather quickly with the game. Not to mention that you can't play an alty, scramble, or see your friend that you are playing with. Also...can't forget to mention that #$%$ cheesy music that drowns everyone out on ventrilo. So, not only can I not see my friends.....I can't hear them half of the time.