Evene though Condit is probably my favorite fighter; I won't say that Carlos would win, or that he's even a bettter fighter than GSP -because I'd be lying (and I really don't predict outcomes of fights, you should know that by now wth me). But I will say that I think he has a chance to beat a guy like GSP because of the above mentioned factors. And a chance is all you need in any fight.

I completely agree that condit could (and hopefully would should they ever fight) Knock gsp the f** out, I think if BJ couldn't sub gsp, Condit will have alot of trouble accomplishing it.

Aldo hasn't beaten nearly enough quality opponents to prove he's #1 p4p overall right now. And Rua hasn't beaten enough -or put togehter any sort of recent win record to even come close to GSP here either.

GSP has won 8 in a row at this point, hasn't lost since 2007, and only has 1 loss since 2005. Not to mention, he's beaten at least 7 top-10 fighters in a row now. GSP is on an unbeivable streak right now, the only streak thats more impressive -though that depends on how you argue it I suppose- is Anderson Silva.

In many, many peoples opinion (including mine) Shogun hasn't lost since 07 either. Though he does have 2 less fights than gsp. Ugg that loss to forest griffin, dont know what happened there. His loss before that was from a broken arm, a loss he later avenged. That was in 06 to Coleman so it's not so relevant in the present. Plus in 07 he KO'd friggin overeem in the first round I think once he rolls through rashad (or gets dec lnp F*cked) and puts together a string of KO's he'll be much more of a candidate, As for Aldo, hopefully he move to LW and proves what he can really do.

1st off, GSP DOMINATED Kos in the wrestling world in their 1st fight, so I personally don't think it would have mattered there. 2nd, lets not act as if this fight didn't once go to the floor, Kos did get a TD on GSP in this fight, wound up on top, and GSP was able to get back up/reverse the situation anyways.

True but I think that if KOs shot more he could have done alot better. His credentials say he can take gsp down. The first fight KOS focused on his striking more than wrestling (as it appears he did in this fight too) and so was apparently lacking training in wrestling for that fight. In this fight the only time he really shot he got gsp down, and gsp couldn't hold him down and only took him down once or twice.

multiple post, damn these forums are glitchy today.

MP

MP #3

cem_ea_id.MasterEnemy2 wrote:

But I think in the Shields fight, GSP's grappling is pretty much null and void,

-Leafs

Not when you add gNp into the mix. That, and you can't count the fact that GSP lost to Shields all the way back in what, 2004? In some grappling comp. GSP isn't even close to the same animal he was then. And Shields hasn't really evolved much since then.

I can see GSP outfighting Jake on the ground in an MMA fight.

Perhaps null and void was a bad choice of words.
If gsp gets on top of shields I can see him getting swept or subbed, though it will be tough. I can't see gsp finishing shields with gnp. Never knew shields beat gsp in a grappling comp. ADCC was it? doesn't matter tho i agree. And i don't know how relavant it is, but shields had a decisive win over okami back in 06. Shields also competes regularly at middleweight, so he is used to bigger, stronger guys like gsp. If the Kampmann fight was any indication of shields's future in the ufc, he will get destroyed. Kampmann could have won that fight had he not tried to beat shields at his own game. But if its like takinori gomi, shields has learned to fight ufc and should be ready lol.

I agree that well rounded is always the way to go. However, there is an X factor (well, really 2 X-factors that Condit would bring into a fight like this). That, and Carlos does happen to be very well rounded:

The 1st is, Condit is dangerous. Now, think about this for a second, Condit isn't the best technical striker, nor grappler, but what he does bring with him into any fight is that ability to 'catch' you with either a sub, OR strike and hurt you. Condit has 31 fights under his belt -26 of them are wins, and only ONE of his victories has been by decision -that is not by accident. The dude has a 99% 'finish' rate for his victories (or damn close to it). So that is something that would factor into this fight, and something that really can't be accounted for. Condit is actually quite well rounded too BTW; 12 of those wins are TKO/KO's, and 13 are subs. I'll agree that Condit has huge holes in his game, but he makes up for it by having a very tough chin -and lethal knees/hands to counter with, and a very dangerous ground game from his back.

The 2nd X-factor for me here with Carlos is that he's a formwer Champion of a major org himself -and he not only had a few successfull title defenses, but he never lost that belt. Carlos knows how to beat a champion -and how to perform like one as well. I really don't think you'd see Carlos get into the cage with GSP -or anyone- and be intimidated, or fight their fight, which is very important when you're fighting a: Fedor-GSP-Anderson Silva type. Carlos is a guy that I see going out on his shield so to speak.

Evene though Condit is probably my favorite fighter; I won't say that Carlos would win, or that he's even a bettter fighter than GSP -because I'd be lying (and I really don't predict outcomes of fights, you should know that by now wth me). But I will say that I think he has a chance to beat a guy like GSP because of the above mentioned factors. And a chance is all you need in any fight.

That wrestling is Condit's Achilles heel though. I know it's been 3 years ago but when he fought Brock Larson, he got taken down pretty easily even though he knew that Larson wanted to try and get him to the ground. Even though Larson got subbed, I'm pretty sure he won't be able to catch GSP in a sub off of his back.

Condit also struggled against Jake Ellenberger, a fight in which I thought Ellenberger won. I know Ellenberger is a beast and a great up and comer but he's not anywhere near the level of a GSP.

I just don't think by him having a minuscule chance to win merits him getting in the ring with a guy like GSP. A lot of guys have had way more of a chance than Condit to beat GSP but they've all come out on the losing end. I think they have to move him to MW to have an interesting fight but that's just me.

xbox.jbrock11 wrote:

I agree that well rounded is always the way to go. However, there is an X factor (well, really 2 X-factors that Condit would bring into a fight like this). That, and Carlos does happen to be very well rounded:

The 1st is, Condit is dangerous. Now, think about this for a second, Condit isn't the best technical striker, nor grappler, but what he does bring with him into any fight is that ability to 'catch' you with either a sub, OR strike and hurt you. Condit has 31 fights under his belt -26 of them are wins, and only ONE of his victories has been by decision -that is not by accident. The dude has a 99% 'finish' rate for his victories (or damn close to it). So that is something that would factor into this fight, and something that really can't be accounted for. Condit is actually quite well rounded too BTW; 12 of those wins are TKO/KO's, and 13 are subs. I'll agree that Condit has huge holes in his game, but he makes up for it by having a very tough chin -and lethal knees/hands to counter with, and a very dangerous ground game from his back.

The 2nd X-factor for me here with Carlos is that he's a formwer Champion of a major org himself -and he not only had a few successfull title defenses, but he never lost that belt. Carlos knows how to beat a champion -and how to perform like one as well. I really don't think you'd see Carlos get into the cage with GSP -or anyone- and be intimidated, or fight their fight, which is very important when you're fighting a: Fedor-GSP-Anderson Silva type. Carlos is a guy that I see going out on his shield so to speak.

Evene though Condit is probably my favorite fighter; I won't say that Carlos would win, or that he's even a bettter fighter than GSP -because I'd be lying (and I really don't predict outcomes of fights, you should know that by now wth me). But I will say that I think he has a chance to beat a guy like GSP because of the above mentioned factors. And a chance is all you need in any fight.

That wrestling is Condit's Achilles heel though. I know it's been 3 years ago but when he fought Brock Larson, he got taken down pretty easily even though he knew that Larson wanted to try and get him to the ground. Even though Larson got subbed, I'm pretty sure he won't be able to catch GSP in a sub off of his back.

Condit also struggled against Jake Ellenberger, a fight in which I thought Ellenberger won. I know Ellenberger is a beast and a great up and comer but he's not anywhere near the level of a GSP.

I just don't think by him having a minuscule chance to win merits him getting in the ring with a guy like GSP. A lot of guys have had way more of a chance than Condit to beat GSP but they've all come out on the losing end. I think they have to move him to MW to have an interesting fight but that's just me.

SHHH!! your guna make him angry you wont like him when hes angry.

EDIT: hey it worked, cool.

GSP won't be going to MW anytime soon though it doesn't look like. I just seen an interview with Dana and he says that Shields is definitely GSP's next fight.

I just don't think by him having a minuscule chance to win merits him getting in the ring with a guy like GSP.

-Brock

Well, 1st off, I think he has much more than a 'miniscule' chance. He just KTFO'd a guy that fought GSP recently (Hardy) that GSP dominated for 5 rounds. So we know that Condit can hold his own against guys that were deemed good enough to fight GSP (though I never really liked the idea of GSP/ Hardy myself).

That, and Condit has the credentials to fight GSP. He's (Condit) a former champion himself, and he's only lost 1 fight since 2006 -a fight that some feel he won -I don't though, I scored that fight slightly for Kampman, though I do beleive Condit could have finished Martin in the 1st round after landing that knee, instead, for no reason, he decided to clinch and allow a phisically stronger Kampman time to recover and get back in the fight.

I scored the Ellenberger fight for Condit though, that was another close one, but Condit did enough to win imo -I beleive compustrike also showed that Condit landed more strikes in the fight too, along with some TD's.

Shields also competes regularly at middleweight,

-Leafs

Where he had all types of problems against Jayson 'Mayhem' Miller on the ground, the same Miller that GSP completely destroyed in a fight. Now I know MMAth is retarded, but GSP would be the physically stronger fighter in a fight between he and Shields. You also really do have to consider the opponents that Jake has been fighting to make him look so good in the MMA world as opposed to the guys that GSP has done it against in MMA -and overall, its not even a question who has had the tougher road (GSP has, for the record). NOW, Dan Henderson was a hell of a statement for Jake -but that fight came right off a tough weight cut for Hendo where he clearly gassed out. I beleive that a ready Hendo beats Shields any where, any time. BUT, that isn't how it went, and my opinion is voided by the facts here -Shields did beat him straight up, so thats what it is.

And yes BTW, GSP did lose to Jake Shields in a grappling tourney -I do beleive it was the ADCC's -they were Purple belts at the time if I'm not mistaken. Jake tapped him to move on. But that was a long time ago, and GSP really isn't even close to the same animal, not to mention, this is an MMA fight we're now talking about. And grappling in MMA is not so cut and dry when you add all the elements into it. I honestly think GSP would be just fine on the mat with Shields in an MMA fight -for many various reasons.

Guess our discussion is hot air though -because we're going to find out when they fight. Apparently it was announced at the pressor that Shields is next up.

cem_ea_id.MasterEnemy2 wrote:

I just don't think by him having a minuscule chance to win merits him getting in the ring with a guy like GSP.

-Brock

Well, 1st off, I think he has much more than a 'miniscule' chance. He just KTFO'd a guy that fought GSP recently (Hardy) that GSP dominated for 5 rounds. So we know that Condit can hold his own against guys that were deemed good enough to fight GSP (though I never really liked the idea of GSP/ Hardy myself).

That, and Condit has the credentials to fight GSP. He's (Condit) a former champion himself, and he's only lost 1 fight since 2006 -a fight that some feel he won -I don't though, I scored that fight slightly for Kampman, though I do beleive Condit could have finished Martin in the 1st round after landing that knee, instead, for no reason, he decided to clinch and allow a phisically stronger Kampman time to recover and get back in the fight.

I scored the Ellenberger fight for Condit though, that was another close one, but Condit did enough to win imo -I beleive compustrike also showed that Condit landed more strikes in the fight too, along with some TD's.

Shields also competes regularly at middleweight,

-Leafs

Where he had all types of problems against Jayson 'Mayhem' Miller on the ground, the same Miller that GSP completely destroyed in a fight. Now I know MMAth is retarded, but GSP would be the physically stronger fighter in a fight between he and Shields. You also really do have to consider the opponents that Jake has been fighting to make him look so good in the MMA world as opposed to the guys that GSP has done it against in MMA -and overall, its not even a question who has had the tougher road (GSP has, for the record). NOW, Dan Henderson was a hell of a statement for Jake -but that fight came right off a tough weight cut for Hendo where he clearly gassed out. I beleive that a ready Hendo beats Shields any where, any time. BUT, that isn't how it went, and my opinion is voided by the facts here -Shields did beat him straight up, so thats what it is.

And yes BTW, GSP did lose to Jake Shields in a grappling tourney -I do beleive it was the ADCC's -they were Purple belts at the time if I'm not mistaken. Jake tapped him to move on. But that was a long time ago, and GSP really isn't even close to the same animal, not to mention, this is an MMA fight we're now talking about. And grappling in MMA is not so cut and dry when you add all the elements into it. I honestly think GSP would be just fine on the mat with Shields in an MMA fight -for many various reasons.

Guess our discussion is hot air though -because we're going to find out when they fight. Apparently it was announced at the pressor that Shields is next up.

3:30 where I am, too tired to write full response, i don't think of hendo fight as really win for shields or loss for hendo, just * of weight cut. Yes ready hendo beats shields, i think also beats gsp. Plz excuze gramer, 3:30. no wich event they fight at? good night sir.

know wich event they fight at?

-Leafs

Not sure, I didn't watch the pressor -I'm tired too. I don't think its been announced yet though.

I should go WAY back and dig up the 'Shields would beat GSP' thread from like 2 years ago though lol. I think SKS and I went at it pretty good in that one if I'm not mistaken -now we get to find out who was right lol.

Well, 1st off, I think he has much more than a 'miniscule' chance. He just KTFO'd a guy that fought GSP recently (Hardy) that GSP dominated for 5 rounds. So we know that Condit can hold his own against guys that were deemed good enough to fight GSP (though I never really liked the idea of GSP/ Hardy myself).

You can't take what he done off of one fight and think thats enough to pit him against GSP. He struggled against Ellenberger, Kampman and MacDonald. I think you can also agree that none of those guys are anywhere near the level of GSP. Maybe Condit can get a shot one day if GSP doesn't move up but just basically catching Hardy with a good shot isn't enough to pit him against GSP IMO. He'd have to take on one of the very top WW's like Kos, Fitch, Shields, Alves, before I'd feel good enough to put him in with GSP.

I scored the Ellenberger fight for Condit though, that was another close one, but Condit did enough to win imo -I beleive compustrike also showed that Condit landed more strikes in the fight too, along with some TD's.

I don't think Compustrike covered the fight but FightMetric had the strikes tied with Ellenberger having more sub attempts and takedowns.