> no i thought you were saying that alot of guys on
> there do have alot of int's...
>
> i was saying that those rankings arent even
> considering INT's at all... and int's are still the
> most important thing a CB can provide his team

by that logic d hall did a good job in oakland

the most important thing a cb can do for his team is stop the opposing receiver, not get a pic

omg here we goo... are you telling me that int's are not the most important thing when it boils down to it? really? i mean unless you are pulling a "nnamdi" and not even giving up a catch per game...

sure if that int turns directly into points and he also keeps his receiver from getting a lot of yards or a td

but in most cases Id rather my corner give up no catches than him give up say 4 for 80 yards get an int

it depends on the int, but most of the time ints dont turn into points Id suspect, giving up a lot of yards on a drive usually does result in points

a CB has NO ABILITY at all to decide what the offense does with the INT... that shouldnt even be equated.... if you are going to assume the other team scores if you give up a lot of yards, then im going to assume the CB's offense is going to score if he gets an INT..

if a CB gave up 80 yards a game and got an INT a game... i would take that in a heartbeat... thats 16 int's on the year...

think about it...

obviously you dont want a guy giving up countless catches and gettin 5 or 6 int's... but if a guy can hold guys down and still generate int's... then thats great

> also, alot of those guys on that list dont have many int's... thats still the most important thing for a CB


..........................................

> i think i just realized you were saying int's arent
> important, not that the cb's dont have few.. sry for
> the mistake..
>
> and what do you mean no they are not??
>
> the most certainly are! taking a posession away from
> the other team and giving one to your offense is the
> BEST thing you can do as a defender....
>
> if you stop your man 3 times in a row but on the 4th
> try your teamate gives up a TD then that hurts your
> team.
>
> obviously i dont mean if you have 10 int's but give
> up a million catches like cromartie last year.... but
> its better to be getting INT's if you give up a few
> more plays to do so...
>
> i dont know how anyone in their right mind could
> argue otherwise

see this is what I mean, If I were to make a mistake in what I was saying youd be calling me something like a liar, or a ret ard, or worse

btw thanks for basically proving my point in that ints arent the most important thing, when all the top guys dont have a lot of pics on that list

what? dude, im PROVING TO YOU THAT THIS LIST IS NOT A LIST OF THE TOP CB'S IN THE LEAGUE... its a list of the top YPA CB's in the leauge.

what is so hard for you to understand????

most of the top cbs right now dont have a lot of pics

d hall has what, 5, 6

pics are a plus, a luxury stat

a nice little bonus

they are not the most important thing a corner can do

and Im not saying they dont matter

I'd say thats pretty close to the list of best CBs in the league, add or subtract a couple guys. Some of the guys on there have their numbers skewed a bit, probably because they play on a weak defense so why even bother throwing on him if they can just as easily run or throw somewhere else.

wrong... an INT is more important than your guy not catching the ball on a play by play basis... without question....

if you are thrown on twice.. is it better for the pass to be incomplete twice, or intercepted twice...

an interception is better than an incompletion and that is a fact.

you are reaching hard right now cuz your boy rogers has only 5 int's in 4 years which is ridiculously low

and that list is no where near close to having the guys ranked right... no bailey, no newman, no mathis... then you have just average guys on there as well as way below average players..

again, ITS GOING PURELY OFF OF yards per attempt!!! thats IT

it is kinda spooky how the list does seem to start off very well, cant just plain disregard it just cause it doesnt have mathis

I've got a sneaking hunch that if mathis had no interceptions thsi year, that you would be saying " interceptions are nice but great coverage is what really matters"

just a hunch tho

you are funny... lol... rogers has 5 ints in 4 years and you dont want that to show thru...


i just did the stats on mathis... if you take out the detroit game, including incomplete passes thrown his way... his ypa comes down to 6.0 ...... that shows what 1 game can do to your metrics.

if you take out JUST THE CATCH that calvin johnson had on him late in garbage time where mathis was in better position than him when the ball was thrown but got outreached... it comes down to 6.44

if you wanna start dissecting stats from the metrics... how about carlos rogers being thrown at 71 times thru 10 games.....

last year, in 14 games, mathis was thrown on 64 times....

rogers has been thrown on 71 times and has 1 int in 10 games

i know you are trying to make these metrics mean more than they are, cuz you are giddy seeing rogers there, but sadly they dont...

they arent even adjusted yet for types of WR's.

like i have said 10 times... it is a ranking SOLEY ON YPA!!

how about this, lets do a ranking on CB's by most interceptions this year:

1. woodson - 5 ints
2. finnegan- 5 ints
3. mathis- 4 ints
4. revis- 4 ints
5. reeves- 4 ints
6. tramon williams- 4 ints
7. jason david- 3 ints

now is that a great top 10 list?? well let me use ur logic for a minute... "well, there are a few guys you would expect to be there, so it must mean something...."

ya, it does mean something, it means these CB's are playing well in THIS CATEGORY....

just like you cant rank CB's on their ypa... you cant rank a CB by his INT numbers...

its really not complicated, i know you are being difficult on purpose tho

Message was edited by: KrazyJvilleD (PS3)

Message was edited by: KrazyJvilleD (PS3)

you know what i wish i could do... is do up the all time most in depth metrics for CBs..

something that took all of these things into effect and created a formula:

1. who you cover( #1 WR's, #2 WR's and how much)
2. how much your pass rush aids you
3. how often you play with a lead and how that affects things
4. adjusted yards per attempt
5. success rate
6. int's
7. how often you have safety help over top or any kind of coverage rolled your way to help you
8. how often you are in man and zone and list the percentage of each
9. passes that WR's dropped with you in coverage
10. Int's that you dropped
11. and strength of schedule... IE... did you play more #1 WR's like a Brandon jones of the titans, or more #1 WR's like a Terrell Owens

add all that up, show all the numbers individually so that you can break each guy down, then have some kind of formula...

i bet that stuff would sell of the hook... you could do similiar stats for every position.... basically like what pro football prospectus does, but much much more in depth

Message was edited by: KrazyJvilleD (PS3)

of course Im being difficult on purpose that obvious, and I dont think rogers is as good as mathis either, its just that anytime someone posts something that doesnt have mathis near the top you completely shoot it down, when it is somewhat telling, no one is saying its the list of the best corners, but you just basically call it completely irrelevant

and rogers being thrown at the most, yet still allowing a little amount of catches is very impressive, not the other way around, and you should remember we have smoot and springs as well, and rogers is usually on the number 1, Im sure that along with the fact that he cant catch plays into the fact that he gets thrown at a lot