The Masters

I would like people to say their opinion on this because I really dont know which i should have more of. Ill dissect The Hog, oh i mean irons and wedges and you tell me what is better.
I am currently playing odd irons and 5 wedges.

Less Irons, more wedges: In a tight game, it can be decided by an AHO, but most likely the par 3s. Mid to long irons are typical distances for them and it can be tough to get it within a makeable 20ft putt every time if you're in between irons. If you miss the green because of this and most likely going to be down a stroke.
More wedges on the other hand, is critical when inside 150 yards. It can be very difficult on par 4s if you dont have the wedges to stick it close or do a 10-20 pitch from just off the green. A lack of wedges could also make you a stroke down, unless you are a master at loft.


Thanks for your input -TheKing434

i have 6 irons and 5 wedges. i took out the aw and replaced it with an 8 iron and it has been very handy especialy on in between p3s. after taking the aw out i retuned my wedges to have equal distance between each wedge and it has worked well for me so far. i do not use the loft method i hit % shots only this is why i set my bag up this way.




dgg

Basically I put as many short clubs in my bag as possible. So this means all 6 wedges. Then I figure I need the 3W for long par 5 shots and hitting from poor lies like sand and long rough...also I use it for safe tee shots when I need them. Then I just fill in the middle with irons. I have 5 clubs left to choose from, so I just use odd number irons to fill in all the gaps: 1i, 3i, 5i, 7i, PW.

The 1i is just a personal preference, but you can get the same results with a 7W or 5W.

The only divider between irons and wedges is 45 degrees pitch. So it's just names. Start from either LW or HLW club, tune the way you want it, and then irons and wood. To my way of thinking, the most important thing is to avoid gaps between clubs. I play the loft game and so gaps become a real pain. My "in the bag" and full club tune is an article "What's in the bag" on NCDs site.

Glen

i have 1iron, 3iron, 4iron, 5iron, 6iron, 8iron, PW.
Gap W, Sand W, Lob W, and High Loft W. Also 3 Wood and 8.5º Driver. These are just perfect for me. the only reason i would mess up an aporoach is if i hit my right leg on my downswing which results in a 79% shot that fades, and just my luck is that short right has water or OB. so id say wedges and irons are equally important.

the main difference between the good player and the great players, is the pitching game. you need to be able to engineer your own holeouts in order to beat the players that get 4 or 5 ahos in a round when you dont. if keeping all the wedges in your bag makes this easier for you than i recomend that you do it, as keeping your pitches as close to 100% power is vital. a successful pitching game(33%) is needing only 1 to 5 clicks of loft(up or down) on most pitches that have break, elevation and wind to deal with. anyone can master the lob wedge but the truely great can fire 33% or more in the cup with the pitching wedge.
i personally dont carry all the wedges, i carry a 9i and a 4i in exchange for the gw and the lbhw for more control on par 3's and the shorter approach. the gap in the pitching distance is able to be made up by increasing or decreasing loft. again i dont recomend this, but i have played enough rounds to know where the loft is going to put the ball, with the wedges i carry. take advantage of the pitching practice swing arcs on the shorter shots, if not for training purposes only(brian levine).

carrying fewer irons on the other hand is fine for covering the gaps left by club tuning, but when there is higher wind, the loft adjustments can still leave me with less confidence that i am going to hit my mark. this seems to occur between the 3 and 5 iron more than anywhere else when i am playing into or with the wind on a long range par 3 or approach. hence i use the 4i to control that problem. i use the 9i for the same reason, namely short range gap control.

I reckon you will find that if you asked 10 people what clubs they had you would get 6 or 7 different answers, although its pretty commonly accepted dumping a few irons to add extra wedges is necessary.

Best advice I can give is to read Glen's write up on NCD's site, even if you dont use it to pick your clubs it is fantastic for understanding how to best utilise the clubs in your bag and how to cover gaps. The absolute best players can setup their clubs to have absolutely no gaps but this requires an awesome knowledge of the game, for us mere mortals you will usually have a small gap somewhere. Best thing to do is make your initial setup then play rounds on as many courses as possible and you will find some shots that give you more trouble then the others. Take a note of these and then adjust your clubs to cover this and see if your new setup allows you to manage the gaps more effectively.

As an example my first setup was driver, 5W, 3,5,7,9I and all wedges. I personally found that I had a large gap between the driver and 5W that was costing me distance on drives and restricting my ability to hit some long par 5's in 2, plus the gap from 5W to 3I was a bit tricky. I also found the HLW more difficult to control than other clubs so I dumped it and the 5W for a 3W and 1I. I found this gave me much greater flexibility in my long approach shots and the gap created by removing the HLW can be managed by aiming drives to stay out of the 55-65m region.

There some people out there who would rather die than let go of their HLW, which just goes to show that no one setup is right for everyone. Read the info, get an understanding of what is going on and then use practical experience to find what works best for you. Amateur tourneys are a great way of testing things out on a variety of courses if you dont want to just practice offline.

I tend to agree with MrYoungGun. If you are just starting out or your short game isn't up to "par" I would say carrying ALL wedges is a must cause I believe it will make it easier. I did at one time but found that I dont need a HLW so I replaced w 9i so I have all odd irons. Even or odd irons I guess is a matter of preference. I didnt use a 1 iron until NCD noted in one of his earler threads that he used one. Been magic for me ever since. (Thanks NCD bythe way ) One additional note....whether you carry 3 wedges or 6 wedges I would stongly recommend mastering your loft shots (up AND down) with ALL your wedges!

I seem to be in a minority with the 1 iron thing, though. Most people I talk to like a 7W instead. I haven't compared the two all that much, but I just felt like I had more control and could stick it better with the 1 iron, and so I kept it. You can probably get similar results either way, though.

i carry a 1 iron in real golf so i carry one in tw also . doesnt mean i can hit it lol. i like ncd have found the 1 iron to have many more advantages over the woods without a noticeable loss in distance. i like it for the control and accuracy it gives me especialy on shots that i have to shape.








dgg

This is a great topic King and some great answers. It's making me rethink my club selection and the reasons for those selections. Well done. l

I still dont know which is better. Some people think they are equal, but it seems like 90% of the people here have loaded on wedges.
I personally think irons are more important because many games i have played have come down to the par 3s and getting the ball close for a birdie. If you have iron gaps, it becomes tough to dial your shots in every time especially for the 180-210 yard holes.
I have rarely seen a game decided by a gap in wedges though because it is easy to get it close even if you have gaps in your wedges.

Im not ready to trade in 2 of my five wedges yet because i think a short game is very important and can sometimes over rule having more irons.
Yes, i did contradict myself, but thats how close this decision is for me.

Great job on the previous posts! -TheKing434

cem_ea_id.dadgotgame wrote:i carry a 1 iron in real golf so i carry one in tw also . doesnt mean i can hit it lol. i like ncd have found the 1 iron to have many more advantages over the woods without a noticeable loss in distance. i like it for the control and accuracy it gives me especialy on shots that i have to shape.








dgg

You need to get yourself a hybrid instead of that iron. tour pros and most people have hybrids instead of long irons.

I too am seriously reconsidering my club selection because of this thread. In particular, I refer to the comment by more than one person on dumping the HLW. The gap between 3 wood and driver is costing me around a stroke every 1 to 2 rounds. One of the suggestions above was to dump the HLW and stay out of the 55 to 65 yard range. I reviewed several recent video recordings of my rounds, and found that the only times that I used a HLW, it had actually cost me a shot! So I setup a shot to Saint Andrews hole #1 for testing. I was on the fairway with around 62 yards to the pin in the centre of the green and a 7mph right to left wind. This is a typical approach shot to a par 4, and there are more par 4s in the game of golf than anything else. I aimed at the pin and made no corrections for wind. I found that if no spin was used on any shot (pro conditions) that it gave me a 6 yard gap between LW+7 and PWp-7 shots (67 to 73 yards). But if we I used spin, it gave a 4 yard overlap (PWp-7=73 yards, LW+7=69 yards). The effect of wind between a HLW full shot and a PW pitch shot with decreased loft is rather interesting:

HLW+3 full with no spin: 67 yards, 13 feet drift caused by wind effect
PWp-7 with 10% topspin: 67 yards, 4 feet drift caused by wind effect

A HLW flop shot with max power and default loft club tuning achieves 6 yards. The only time I remember using this shot was before I knew about the M+ practise shot tracers, plus one time when I was in a bunker with the pin on extreme edge of green next to said bunker. In that particular case I managed to spin the ball off the green onto the gap between bunker and green in my attempt to holeout.

A HLW pitch shot covers the range of 6 yards to 13 yards - precisely the coverage of chip shots without spin being applied.

So in theory at least, yes it does look like the HLW club could be successfully replaced by a 1 iron, making it possible to increase the power of my fairway woods to fill in some of that gap between D8.5+7 and 3W. I do know that when I bring out the HLW club for a full shot, I get very nervous about the level of the ground around the ball. Even when you get it close with a HLW full shot, it's very hard to tell how much backspin there will be, and if you do add backspin, is it going to spin the ball off the front of the green? These issues don't come up with PW-7 pitch shots.

Glen

I tend to agree here. My HLW is rated at 59 yards at 100%. The next wedge up rates at 55 yards with a 100% pitch shot, so I don't really see what the HLW buys me. I do find it interesting how many people don't carry a 9 iron.

Now, if I could just find one of those 10 foot putters that you classic putt players use.

It will be interesting next year to see how the real pros do with the change in grooves on irons. It should be a benefit to the shorter, more accurate players.