Need for Speed Racing Games

When I first tested Shift, instantly it felt great. It feels like there is a proper, PC sim-like, physic engine underneath, nothing like a faked-sim GT5P or a way too assisted Forza 3

So far so good, but we all know Shift is not really a true sim; why not ? because the back of the car feels like it's attached to a string.

Take, say, the M3 E36, default setup, rear cam and a wide track. Drive at a decent speed and start turning the steering wheel in the straight line. The front is not responsive enough, and suddenly you see the back breaking loose, like pulled by a string

Then, there is the drifting thing (in normal mode) - way too easy to control, way not snappy enough, way too hard to spin... like if the rear was controlled with a string

The whole thing make the cars turn on themself rather than turn around the corners, and even thought you can setup the car to understeer, at every corner the "physic understeer" will still be compensated by the "pulled-string oversteer" in a lot of painful tire screaches... making it even worse

I know why they've done that, same reason Turn10 made Forza 3 so assisted : they screwed up their own amazing game so that Gran Turismo pilots don't crash 8 times a lap. I understand that, but isn't sad that proper drivers have to take it as well ?

Please SMS, if you read that, please CUT THE STRING. Somehow, ANYHOW, please release the sim before we all forget your amazing job. Take a Richard Burns Rally drive and think about it...

Are you saying that not hard = not realistic? What is your reference? Are you comparing to games like GTR2, which are not realistic w.r.t. how hard it is to control the cars?

nfs.GCReDi wrote:Are you saying that not hard = not realistic?

I never said that, did I ? but it's often true
the funny thing is that Shift is not easy. But even if you drive properly, when you arrive at a corner too quickly, you can just "throw the car" wildly in it, and you'll be allright; no matter what car you drive and how you setted it up, it will NEVER really understeer. You're not realizing it but it does make it way easier

GTR2 is not realistic ? if you say so... it's still at another level of "sim-liking". My references, well I'd say rFactor, iRacing... does it matter ?

intelligent 3d really !!!!

sorry for my poor english but :

I think the SAME as you !

the physic overall is not bad, except the rear, and this is a big problem (as sim..) !
There is ALWAYS a sensation of TC active, or innatural control exiting from a curve (IN PRO MODE naturally...)

With DBR9 , total downing the accelerator in 2 shift exiting from a curve, and i have a easy controllable spin...argh .. try it with a real dbr9.... A CENTRIFUGE !!!

DBR9 is a gt1 car.. the m3 e92 in gt2 fia..

This is a big detail that makes shift down the acclaimed simulation.. (i remain in the range of "driving model", i'm not interested to pit stops, fuel.. and so on)

Have you actually driven any of these cars on a track? The M3 E36 in game feels quite neutral and balanced to me... maybe you should try changing your driving technique? All cars are a bit different and require different input in the controls to get around a corner as fast as possible.

Your overall assessment of racing mode vs. drift mode seems the exact opposite for me. I think the tire grip levels are way too low in drift mode, but otherwise I have no problem getting out of control. Again, might I suggest you try a different driving style?

Also do you have the best line assist on? If so, turn it off... it feel it has you braking too much, and when you apply power going around the corner in a RWD car you will start to spin, this is normal. This means you can get through the corner with a bit more speed.

I find most RWD cars in the game can get understeer if driving them really hard, trying to get through a corner as fast as possible... only a few cars are really tail-happy. But for the most part it comes down to the driver and how modifications are setup.

For modding, remember making it faster will have a big impact on ease of handling, especially on cars with a shorter wheelbase such as the S2000. You put 500hp in a lightweight car with a short wheel base and you'll be fighting to keep the damn thing in a straight line. Same with the 350Z, I modded mine to 600hp and it is waaayyy too much power unless you know exactly how to setup the suspension and use the right tires. I myself still have a lot to learn for setting up suspension.

Anyhow I think the physics in this game, at least in terms of car handling feels pretty dang close to real for me. Not perfect... but still quite realistic.

do you have read our 3ds?

for you is it normal that the 550hp of dbrS9 has the "grip" of NFSS in total acceleration ?

Can anyone explain me what "threeds" are?

Anyway, as long as no-one here has actually driven these race-/supercars, all comments and complaints about grip levels and handling are pretty worthless. I have read comments from people who actually drive street cars on race tracks that sometimes grip levels are a bit low-ish in Shift.

It's always the same discussion, hard = realistic for most if not all hardcore sim racers most of whom never were even near the cockpit of a real race car, and the fact that a former 3-times SCCA champion and several other former race drivers have given their input on grip levels and handling in Shift does not count at all. Yeah right.

About the example of a DBR9, my guess is that even (or maybe that should be especially) a race version of a DBR9 always has TC? Most modern race cars have it, for good reasons.

cem_ea_id.Sneaky_Buffalo wrote:The M3 E36 in game feels quite neutral and balanced to me

the reason I said to put the rear cam view is because from this point of view you can see that the movement of the car is not natural at all. Please don't tell me how to drive, I've been a PC sim-racer for decades (well, one decade). My driving style have nothing to do with the weird car behavior. There is no way in real life you can drive that dirty and get away with it, or drift in straight line in a stock car
I know it's rewarding when you drive it "right", I'm not saying the gameplay is bad (thought it could be so much better), I'm barely debating the sim-factor of the game

I'm claiming an artificial force is pushing the back outside when you give lock, and that the same force is making sure you don't loose control of the car

that's what you can't do in Shift : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DiJL3rMxmk&feature=related
just try yourself and give me wrong

GCReDi > I'm pointing out exactly what the problem is and you're speaking of low/high grip and easy/hard; with such arguments, any arcade game is a sim beside, there are not only supercar is this game; I've driven 200SX and M3s...

Please Forgive me if I am mistaken about this.

But the last time I checked the It was the DB9 and not the DBR9/DB9r that was in the game.

The last time I checked, Although Similar, they are still 2 different cars.

Sorry for going off topic.

It is My Opinion that NFS Shift is the closest thing to a SIM that an NFS title has ever gotten. Physics wise that is. You have to be very careful about how you control your car or you will loose control of it. Understeer can be a REAL problem if you enter a turn too fast no matter what kind of car you drive.

also 1 more thing.

NFS Shift is NOT Nfs Pro-Street where you can keep the hammer dropped and do not have to slow down for some turns. You try that trick in Shift and you WILL end up off the track to say the least.

I just wish you could run some of these tracks/events in Reverse(Quickrace and Online) for an interesting twist. If it is possable please forgive my ignorance.

MAIN.BChant197 wrote:It is My Opinion that NFS Shift is the closest thing to a SIM that an NFS title has ever gotten. Physics wise that is. You have to be very careful about how you control your car or you will loose control of it. Understeer can be a REAL problem if you enter a turn too fast no matter what kind of car you drive

YES, it is the best NFS until now, never said the contrary; it does has proper physics, it's rewarding and everything; but is it a sim ? in actual state, I'd say no, and I explained why

and NO, I'm not convinced with the understeer. In my mind, understeer is the point where you turn the wheel and it goes "straight", like this at 0"20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmQkmai_9PQ
no melodrama, it's just not turning

while in Shift, I can see a "sort of oversteer" (call it the way you want) when full lock is applied, which seem totally unrelated to the law of physic in any way

cem_ea_id.nico1965_nico wrote:
the reason I said to put the rear cam view is because from this point of view you can see that the movement of the car is not natural at all.

Well that's the single biggest mistake you can make. I mean really. The rear cam view pivots around the center of the car when the car turns, and that gives a very distorted view of the car's behaviour. I've seen quite some people saying that Shift uses pivot physics like the early CMR rally games, just because they see the pivoting behaviour with the rear cam. Shift does not use pivot physics, even Codemasters don't use it anymore.

If you want to judge the game's car handling and behaviour, you really need to stay away from that rear view cam.

MAIN.BChant197 wrote:NFS Shift is NOT Nfs Pro-Street where you can keep the hammer dropped and do not have to slow down for some turns. You try that trick in Shift and you WILL end up off the track to say the least

actually you CAN drive faster than you'd think is the limit, throw the car in the corners and you'll be allright; I don't know about others NFS and couldn't care less

GCReDi > look at this vid after 6"10; I can clearly see CAR turning 'round itself, not the cam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTzM4iINOsE

cem_ea_id.nico1965_nico wrote:GCReDi > look at this vid; I can clearly see CAR turning (a bit) 'round itself, not the cam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz87B9a1hV8&feature=related

OK, I should have phrased it a bit differently. The car APPEARS to rotate around a center point because the camera is not fixed to the rear bumper, i.e. it rotates w.r.t. the car. It's an optical illusion. Shift does not use pivot point physics, there's simply no discussion about that

nfs.GCReDi wrote:

It's always the same discussion, hard = realistic for most if not all hardcore sim racers most of whom never were even near the cockpit of a real race car.

Your point on the "equation" is right .. but ...
attention... the risk is the opposite too...

going to justify a errate interpretation of this "incredible" grip of odiern gt1 cars.

Golf R32 for example.. i can spin 360 degrees continually in 3 shift..

And with Aston DBRS9 in shift no ?????

Can you clarifing this point? Because a dbrs9 in gt1 hasn't Traction Control.

If you say me that the grip of dbrs9 is real.. i go out =)

cem_ea_id.Niksounds wrote:
Your point on the "equation" is right .. but ...
attention... the risk is the opposite too...

going to justify a errate interpretation of this "incredible" grip of odiern gt1 cars.

Golf R32 for example.. i can spin 360 degrees continually in 3 shift..

And with Aston DBRS9 in shift no ?????

Can you clarifing this point? Because a dbrs9 in gt1 hasn't Traction Control.

If you say me that the grip of dbrs9 is real.. i go out =)

To be completely frank, I wouldn't know because I don't have a DBR9 nor have I ever driven one. But be aware that the car in Shift probably has race slicks and hence tons more grip than a street car...