Need for Speed Racing Games

cem_ea_id.teeheeaid wrote:OK, for one example, there's an anti flip aid in Shift, which is specifically called an aid by the game data:

<prop name="Enable Anti Flip Aid" data="false" />
<prop name="Anti Flip Minimum Angle" data="45" />
<prop name="Anti Flip Maximum Angle" data="60" />
<prop name="Anti Flip Torque Fixing Force" data="5" />
<prop name="Anti Flip Orientation Fixing Force" data="2" />


It isn't in the UI, and doesn't appear to go away when you kill it in data (notice it defaults to 'false', but it's still on). You can make the car as prone to flip as you like by modifying its physics files, and it still won't roll past about 40 degrees on 2 wheels no matter what. I remember Goffik mentioned that he played with this and couldn't kill it either. Does that count as a hidden aid by you ?

Nah, this is like the grip multiplier of 1.2 "should be 1.0", a few months ago you could have said (many of us did) "See, the grip aid..."

There could be a variable called "TurnLeadIntoGold" and you guys (myself included) would have made alchemy out of it...

But we're just guessing, and demonstrably wrong in the past.

If you can open a file that says "Yeah, actually I made a mistake there are these hidden assists...1. blah blah bla, 2. blah blah blah. HTH, happy Driving, Doug A", then I'd buy it. To me, email is a better tool for the job than the unpacker

It could turn out to be completely unused, misinterpreted, wrong etc etc etc.

Well, let's see you make a car flip then

xbox.Needaxeo wrote:"deviations from simulated reality to ease playability"
Since hidden assists would ease playability, it seems perfectly clear he's said they don't exist.

and yet in "pro mode", I can go full throttle in the Zonda R mid turn in 3rd gear in the the final hairpin at Silverstone. Other than less grip, I don't experience a significant different in the basic handling of the cars between normal and pro modes.

I made a video of the Viper at Silerstone, 1:39.550 (normal mode, all assists off). Some combination of traction control and stability control buried (hidden) in the game's physics allows me to go full throttle through most of that turn instead of having to modulate the throttle as I would in hard core sim-oriented games or real life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1heVeqlJ00&fmt=22

The thing that people keep trying to get across to you is that saying "other than more grip and lower cg" is like asking why the car is so fast "other than the rocket strapped on the top".

cem_ea_id.teeheeaid wrote:OK, for one example, there's an anti flip aid in Shift, which is specifically called an aid by the game data

have you tried putting them all to 0, see what its like ?

MAIN.rcgldr wrote:Some combination of traction control and stability control buried (hidden) in the game's physics allows me to go full throttle through most of that turn instead of having to modulate the throttle as I would in hard core sim-oriented games or real life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1heVeqlJ00&fmt=22

in a hard core sim you would face understeer to begin with and drifting would be way trickier - and, needless to say, the amount of grip has nothing to do with it... we're back to square 1

cem_ea_id.teeheeaid wrote:The thing that people keep trying to get across to you is that saying "other than more grip and lower cg" is like asking why the car is so fast "other than the rocket strapped on the top".

Heh, yeah, not the least he starts "In pro mode I can"...and then posts yet another video in normal mode.

cem_ea_id.teeheeaid wrote:Well, let's see you make a car flip then

Let's see me take the engine out of a car or change the oil or shag someone on the back seat....oh hang on, they must have hidden assists?

rcgldr is right to note it is a game. Yes, if you have a chess set it's a bit pointless imo to use the pieces to play draughts, especially if you're trying to say at the same time "here's a list showing how good we all are at playing this game", but chess is still just a game too.

As you know I think anyone who thinks a sim is "hardcore" is delusional. So I'm certainly not pretending this is hyper-realistic, or anything, but it may be different from other games, it's certainly no worse.

And I've seen nothing yet to suggest that SMS have lied about what they've said. I have seen evidence of modders and curious folk getting their assumptions wrong though.

I am totally 100% with you on making fun of serious sim racers

I am totally 100% with you that 99% of modders saw the same values as other gmotor2 games and made themselves look like idiots plugging in data that is no longer read in the same way or even used outright while saying they'd made Shift way more realistic plugging in those numbers from GTR2.

But. You can make a car that has 5000000000 n/m of spring pressure and a splitter that produces lift and it won't matter, the car will get pressed back down. You can turn the antiflip aid off, set its parameters to 0, doesn't matter. There is no way to flip a car, that I know of, as long as the player is in control of it. If the AI is in control, even if it's still the players car (postrace) it will flip no problem. But not when you drive it. You can't seem to control this from the UI, or by editing files, that I know of.

At a wild guess, it's some intersection of licensing and the technology in their damage system - the one thing that car manufacturers are really firm about is that you can never, ever show the cockpit space getting pierced by any object on a licensed car.

xbox.Needaxeo wrote:As you know I think anyone who thinks a sim is "hardcore" is delusional. So I'm certainly not pretending this is hyper-realistic, or anything, but it may be different from other games, it's certainly no worse

just to put it into perspective, just a few posts above hardcore players admit you go faster drifting evering corner pedal to the metal... how could it not be worse, I just honestly don't get it...

Do you have Evo/Race On? Do a time attack, and after a few laps see how much speed you can scrub off on the tyres. You'll find the answer is "a lot". Time attack removes tyre wear and doing a few laps heats the tyres up nicely, similar to what you're driving in Shift, and once it's properly heated through you find you get the most grip with the tyre pushed into its ideal slip angle than travelling straight. You'll also find, similarly to Shift, that once you've pushed the tyres as far as they'll go you don't get much more speed out of the throttle - it's the differential kicking in here limiting wheelspin, once there's no grip left for control there's also no grip left for more power, you're picking one.

Argggh!, this track is so hard. I just can't get below 2:17+. My time needs to be at about 2:00 bang on or less as I make the final very slow turn before the final checkpoint to make 2:11., but I'm always at about 2:07.

This is about as much as I sure of.

Without the equations, which I doubt that EA will tell us, plugging in numbers is pretty much a question of what the modder thinks is realistic and not. Looking at it from a physics point of view is entirely impossible. Not that Teeheeaid hasn't made an attempt at changing this situation.

I've also come across the realization that some people who post some amazing videos don't really understand what is going on behind the green curtain.

I would hope that anyone who has half an understanding of simulation games would realize that certain cars need to be driven faster through corners just to get a good reaction from them. Driving a Viper or Ford GT is like driving an F1 car. Only neither will punish you nearly as harshly.

But obviously they don't.

So I guess this is where I shut up and take my lumps for noting that some people shouldn't drive some cars. Nor should they note those cars as being something to tide people over until something more preferential comes along. We don't all like the Zonda.

cem_ea_id.UberSil wrote:what the modder thinks is realistic and not.

Maybe modding needs a new thread. I responded to this post in the hidden assist thread.