Need for Speed Racing Games

I've had this game now for just over a week (total of 8 days). I have put a lot of time into it as well over the last week (taking a huge break from Forza-3). After today I'm strongly considering returning this game and for good reason.

This game "could" have been so great. Are the physics the best.., they're not.., however they're not what's holding this game back. It has awesome graphics.., clearly without a doubt a "benchmark title" for the cockpit driving experience. Good track selections.., fairly decent tuning options, and a nice selection of cars. What literally destroys this game is the HORRIBLE way they set up the AI.

Need for Speed Shift could easily win an award for one of the absolute "worst" racing games when it comes to utter nonsense in how the AI was coded. Anyone on NFS's development team who thinks it's appropriate for the AI to literally destroy your car (intentionally.., and WELL beyond the accidentals you see in a "real" race").., should be BANNED from making racing games. There is absolutely no excuse to have the AI intentionally ramming your car from all sides when doing 180+mph in high performance race cars. It's shere stupidity! It's even more insulting when they then add "clean lap" to some race requirements. How can you make a racing game.., call it a sim (that's what they called it.., and promoted it as).., and program "NO RULES AI"..?? It's hard enough keeping the bloody cars on the track at times because of how much they drift..., but then to deal with AI slamming into your car, pitting you, ramming you from the side, stopping short, cutting you off, coming to a dead stop around turns-for no good reason.., and doing ALL of this intentionally is plain dumb.

AI accidents are obviously coded and timed to impact your vehicle for the sole purpose of taking you out of a race. Every time a car loses control.., isn't it interesting how there is that ONE car involved that just happens to roll right in front of you when you're avoiding the wreck. Just plain dumb.

I have nothing against the NFS franchise. They made some really great games in the past. However.., the route they took with this title was wrong. This game would be so much better if they just release a patch and toned down the over aggressive AI. For *'s sake....., does EVERY freaking car have to bump you on a track. You go to make a clean pass and literally watch the AI jump the driving line just to smack into the side of your car in an attempt to knock you out of control as you pass. I ran a race today and worked so damn hard at getting a clean lap and a podium finish. I was on fire.., and at the very last second an AI car rams right into my rear end, pitting me for no good reason. All those f*** laps wasted to fall short that one star because the AI is this way.

What I've seen lately at local gaming stores and after talking to store employees about this game is shocking. I don't know about your area.., but all the game stores I've been to locally have had SO many copies returned or traded in. Some reported returns and trades within 24 hours of purchase. The number one reason I've heard from GameStop, and other stores is "The AI is horrible".

EA.., get off your *.., get the developers back to the desks, and have them tone down the AI in this game. You guys completey shot yourselves in the foot by releasing a "so called racing simulator" with AI coded this way. There's nothing funny about Zonda Derby Racing. People stop playing online because of exactly how the AI is coded in this game. What makes you think that people who stop online racing because of constant bashing, smashing, and outright stupidity.., want to deal with the same sh** in the game itself against the AI. I've talked to some people who refuse to actually play the game (career mode and quick races) because they find "cleaner races online". You know you screwed up when people are saying that......

well if you dnt like it. take it back lol. it has its problems but its still a good game overall. but on the wrecking part. the game wrecking you. well it wouldnt be a game if it was easy to win. and the cars spinning right in front of you. well im a racecar driver in real life. and when some1 wrecks in front of you. you have to avoid it. its called "skills" lol so get more then lol

Skills I got In eight days I've put a good dent into this game. I have no problem with bumping, rubbing, ect.. shoot bumping and rubbing are just a part of racing, BUT only when it's in the right style of racing. They attempted to make a "circuit based" sim racer. There's a very fine line between bumping/rubbing and flat out "rule breaking" in a circuit race. If this "so called sim" was done properly.., no one (including us) would win because everyone would be disqualified by the end of the first lap

I think they really did a great job on so much in this game. However.., this "is not" sim racing when the AI is coded to be this aggressive completely ignoring racing rules. It'd be different if this was the "typical NFS title". They strayed away and took a shot at sim racing.., but made a mistake when coding the AI this way. It's not sim racing in the slightest. I don't care how long anyone has been a race driver.., or what class they race. AI pinball racing in a Pigani Zonda R is NOT racing. Those cars are not designed to play pinball at those speeds.

A few Questions

Do you use a controller or a Wheel?
Do you play online?

I use the wheel. I'm quite good at racing with the wheel too. I also use the MS wheel all the time with Forza-3. When I first got NFS Shift I was playing it with my controller and after 2 hours I said "no way".., and pulled out my wheel. My lap times majorly increased and it was much easier to avoid contact. However.., the problem is in the AI itself. I constantly drive what SHOULD be good clean laps.., but it's the AI that's running into you intentionally. Again.., I don't mind bumping and rubbing.., but pitting, bashing, and hard slams to the rear and side is way too much. The AI is what makes this game feel like an "arcade racer". If the AI wasn't so aggressive it would feel more like a SIM.

if you use a wheel and learn how to accel/decel the drifting is not a factor especially if you tune the suspension, and as for the AI bumping you i think that was to balence precision with aggresive driving, youll see a lot of both online

No offence but a lot of the problems, being collateral damage in crashes and excess drifting sound like the driver not the game and as for the bumping i think the aggressiveness could have been toned down a bit but i still find it almost necesary.

i do totally agree with you about the clean lap situations

You're misunderstanding me about "drifting". I have no problems controlling my accel and braking. I've got my wheel tuned in quite nicely. The cars themselves "straight-line drift" way too much. The cars drift too much on left to right on their own. This effect is what's often said to make cars seem like they're "floating" rather than be on the road. The straight-line drifting of the vehicles severly impacts that feeling of "rubber to the road".

I've done some nice tunes on my vehicles too. However.., no amount of tuning will reduce straight-line drifting in this game.

I'm all for an aggressive and challenging race too. However.., I still say Bumper Derby with high performance race cars is not sim racing.

I think you might be a little too used to Forza's artificial limits on http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/2980362.aspx http://forums.finalgear.com/forza-motorsports/forza-3s-steering-aid-42036/. You don't have something holding you inside the grip limit anymore.



Best learn to deal with it.

Actually that part about Forza bothers me quite a bit. Forza is "too easy" to drive at times..., and does often feel artificial with the steering. To get the most out of Forza you need to turn off all the assists. Even then though the steering can feel a little artificial too.

It didn't take me long to get used to the straight-line drifting in Shift. Within a few hours I easily figured out to "use it" rather than fight it. What would problably make the straight-line drifting more acceptable is if it translated into the force feedback.

I really do like this game.., I just don't like the over aggressive AI. I think they just went overboard with it. I don't mind rubbing and trading paint with a few bumps and so on..., but dead on smashing and intentionally pitting isn't SIM racing at all. I just expected "racing rules" to apply I guess considering it's a circuit racer and was to be more SIM like and not like the traditional NFS title.

Some of it depends on the race. For the career mode events, the AI personalities you drive against are pre-set in the event file - so some races will have you racing against people with a weight penalty and average driving ability, some will be stronger on the aggressive drivers, some will be stronger on the clean drivers. For quick races you get a kind of random ballot on which profiles you race against.

One thing that can turn your game into something more like a demolition derby is the 'grudge' rating for AI drivers - this is basically a sh*tlist stored in your profile between races. If you rack up a lot of aggressive behaviour against another driver (tailgate him, trade paint, block him, spin him etc) on the way past, even though you might never see him again in that race, that driver's AI will remember it for next race and will be much more likely to commit aggressive acts against you. There seems to be a cooloff factor for this, so if you can manage not to repeatedly bash into the same people they'll eventually calm down, but some are faster at forgiving you than others.

The other thing is that a lot of the aggression you see isn't often "intended" by the AI to be aggressive - the drivers with high aggression ratings AND high ability ratings are actually pretty clean, they'll cleanly execute a block and manage to spin you out without taking their own car out. It tends to be the ones with average or low driving ability, high nervousness, and a moderate aggression rating that tend to be more dangerous - one of those messing up a block and performing it sloppily or too late will often result in much more of a pileup. Driving right behind those guys will 'pressure' them and make them much more likely to screw up, too. So it can be worth giving them a bit of space and picking a spot on the track with somewhere to go if something goes wrong.

It's to the point where I do my absolute best to completey avoid the AI drivers all together. My Driver Badge in Shift has remained at Precission. Sometimes you just can't avoid contact with them. I finished the NFS World Tour today and WOW what a mess at the Nurburgring! I lost count of how many restarts it took just to get off the start line.., through the first few cars and around the first turn. Every start of the race was a demolition derby.

I have seen what you talk about with the inexperienced AI drivers. They're horrible if you really take the time to watch them. Every so often you get to be far enough behind them to see how the AI is coded for them to take you out (gotta love that wobble they do where they just manage to get that wobble in right next to you when you try and pass them).

There's good aggressive racing.., and there's just flat out dirty racing too. Going in for a good clean (by the rules pass) to then be intentionally pitted as you're passing is simply dirty racing. Dirty racing gets you disqualified for being over aggressive. A more recent NASCAR race is a good example of that

squeakdog32 if you're using the PC version of the game, I strongly advise you to download the AI mod from walter at nogripracing.com

With this mod AI is very fast and hard to beat, so you'll get plenty of challenge and it wont be aggressive

squeakdog32, I respect your view but I am not seeing the A.I. faults you described. Initially, I thought you must be using a pad, but you are also a wheel user like me. I have no problem with the "straight-line-drift" you described.

I am also an avid Forza player. I am running a Quad-Screen Forza setup (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XshaF71tHv0) and have purchased every car in Forza 3 legitimately (over $190 million garage value) so you can see that I have played Forza a lot.

The A.I. in Shift has *dynamic* personalities. Some are aggressive by nature, some are not. However, no matter what their nature, if you hit them, they will *remember* you and RETALIATE! This is what makes Shift's A.I. *good* IMO. It isn't just some generic A.I. following a race line. Shift's A.I. will fight amoungst themselves and remember YOU!

Try an experiment: Intentionally knock an A.I. off the track and then try passing it again on a straight. It will remember you and smash you back. Some times, it will brake-check you also. Now, restart the same race but this time don't hit the same A.I. It will let you pass on a straight cleanly and mostly try to not contact you.

If you hit an A.I. early in a race (even accidentally), they will remember you. If you try to pass them later, they will retaliate. You will think "WTF, I was passing you cleanly, but you rammed into me, why!?!" The reason is because it remembers you from when you hit it earlier.

Please, try to race cleanly for the WHOLE race (especially through the first turn traffic), and you will notice much better behaviour. Here is a video I made. 16-car grid, hard A.I., no assists. I am simply not seeing the A.I. faults you described:

I have seen the AI do some things that the poster is talking about, like making a paas for the lead at willow springs, I set the leader up perfectly by taking and outside line knowing the next corner I'd have the inside preferred line and would easlily make the pass. Well as it happened I was making the pass and had a great run off the corner and as I was ahead by a fender the AI tuned into me and kept on it until I was into the barrier, and this was on a straight and I was on the left side of the track pretty far so it does have moments. The only other real problem I see with the AI is the first turn after the start, a lot of cars getting stacked up and just plain stiopping as the seem to go into the turn 4 and 5 wide, other than that it isn't too bad.