The Masters

I think one of the best new additions to the game has been the precision putter. It manages to allow you to feel like you are actually putting just by using the left stick and swing meter. If that swing mechanic could be enhanced and transferred to a full golf swing which would incorporate all the clubs then we would not have the need for any random ball landing areas as it would rely on the pure timing/tempo and direction of your swing to where the ball would land. So basically, what I'm trying to say is, a larger scale precision putter type swing mechanic, sensitive enough so you can swing the stick back to a maximum distance point (i.e like the perfect putting strength point but reflecting the maximum distance point for that particular club) and straight back through with no break in tempo. The top section of the meter could allow for a risk reward section of overswing, with a reward/penalty if you deviate left or right off line slightly with the stick. It would need to be so sensitive that it would be difficult to hit a perfect shot and a slightly underhit, overhit, slightly left/right swing would have the same effect on the shot. Couple this with diverse weather effects and it becomes a test of true skill. Thanks for bearing with me.

cem_ea_id.holeinonesock wrote:I think one of the best new additions to the game has been the precision putter. It manages to allow you to feel like you are actually putting just by using the left stick and swing meter. If that swing mechanic could be enhanced and transferred to a full golf swing which would incorporate all the clubs then we would not have the need for any random ball landing areas as it would rely on the pure timing/tempo and direction of your swing to where the ball would land. So basically, what I'm trying to say is, a larger scale precision putter type swing mechanic, sensitive enough so you can swing the stick back to a maximum distance point (i.e like the perfect putting strength point but reflecting the maximum distance point for that particular club) and straight back through with no break in tempo. The top section of the meter could allow for a risk reward section of overswing, with a reward/penalty if you deviate left or right off line slightly with the stick. It would need to be so sensitive that it would be difficult to hit a perfect shot and a slightly underhit, overhit, slightly left/right swing would have the same effect on the shot. Couple this with diverse weather effects and it becomes a test of true skill. Thanks for bearing with me.

Good idea. But scary. Anyone in here play Madden? Remember the BS that went on with FG's playing peer to peer? I think weaker players that "hate real hard" would exploit it.

i dont really like the precision putter, but i dont think its that much different. you can pull the stick halfway back to the little yellow line and hold it there just the same as you can any other club. there doesnt have to be a tempo.

cem_ea_id.Supersenator wrote:If you watch the pros shoot how many times have you seen them hit and just look down in disgust or sit there begging the ball to land and stop in the right spot.With some sort of randomness this could be approximated.

Of course this doesn't account for wind,mishits,etc...

ps3.Jay2448 wrote:most people that want a 'random landing area' are the ones who use a hori (i'm not instigating a controller debate here)...the game really already has a random landing area (if you think about it) if you use a sixxaxis controller. IMO most people on here complaining about holeouts or the game being 'too easy' should maybe stop looking at EA to make a change on their end and maybe they should put away their hori's and change the sweetspot to 10% if you want a 'random landing area'. I just don't see the point in making the game harder because people go out and buy an accessory to make the game easier.

No, I use a stock controller and I would like to see randomness added to the game. Why? Because it is more realistic. Not even the golf ball testing robot can land them as accurately.

And no one is trying to make the game harder for the ones who buy controllers to make the game easier. All we want is a sim version and a arcade version. If you want easy then play arcade.

Edit: Mike, I would really like to see a tempo based swing that could influence accuracy. This would go someways to addressing the hori users as well.

MAIN.EAcom Golf Tim wrote:Oblong,

I favor 1 & 2, but I believe using more than one stick may be a bit much for most users. It did not work for ProStroke Golf and I fear it would turn users away from TW....but ideas 1&2 are very good.

How can you say using both sticks didn't work for Pro Stroke Golf? That game blew Tiger out of the water I forget what year it was made. I found it in a clearance bin and bought copies for several of my golf gaming friends. All but one, thought PSG was a better experience than Tiger. Tiger just had better graphics, presentation and roster of golfers.

The two analog swing is the best way to ensure some imperfections in the golf swing which should reduce the need for random manipulation of the swing data. Hole-outs in real golf are not rare, but they aren't every round occurences for even the best golfer on the planet.

I personally believe that improving the swing mechanics to create imperfect swings will solve the problem. Two analog sticks working in tandem is the easiest way to get there.

I've just purchased a cheap second hand copy of Prostroke Golf from ebay for the ps2 and although it has its faults and the graphics seem crude and really dated now, I was surprised by the level of innovation and thought applied by the developers who must have been on a tight budget. The game has two stick analogue swing mechanics, fade and draw through foot and ball positioning, different club face angles, reactions to the shot from different slopes and lies and brilliant ball motion physics. Its far from perfect but all these ideas and more should be picked up and perfected by the Tiger Woods console development team. Just think of what they could achieve given their skills and budget. I went back and played TW10 in tour pro and it felt a very arcade like virtual golf experience in comparison.

ps3.jaybiv wrote:

MAIN.EAcom Golf Tim wrote:Oblong,

I favor 1 & 2, but I believe using more than one stick may be a bit much for most users. It did not work for ProStroke Golf and I fear it would turn users away from TW....but ideas 1&2 are very good.

How can you say using both sticks didn't work for Pro Stroke Golf? That game blew Tiger out of the water I forget what year it was made. I found it in a clearance bin and bought copies for several of my golf gaming friends. All but one, thought PSG was a better experience than Tiger. Tiger just had better graphics, presentation and roster of golfers.

The two analog swing is the best way to ensure some imperfections in the golf swing which should reduce the need for random manipulation of the swing data. Hole-outs in real golf are not rare, but they aren't every round occurences for even the best golfer on the planet.

I personally believe that improving the swing mechanics to create imperfect swings will solve the problem. Two analog sticks working in tandem is the easiest way to get there.

It failed miserably because it did not capture the casual user market. They targetted the simulation user and forgot about the casual user. Why do you think it is not being produced any longer? Never stated that it failed from a technical or gameplay perspective....

cem_ea_id.holeinonesock wrote:I've just purchased a cheap second hand copy of Prostroke Golf from ebay for the ps2 and although it has its faults and the graphics seem crude and really dated now, I was surprised by the level of innovation and thought applied by the developers who must have been on a tight budget. The game has two stick analogue swing mechanics, fade and draw through foot and ball positioning, different club face angles, reactions to the shot from different slopes and lies and brilliant ball motion physics. Its far from perfect but all these ideas and more should be picked up and perfected by the Tiger Woods console development team. Just think of what they could achieve given their skills and budget. I went back and played TW10 in tour pro and it felt a very arcade like virtual golf experience in comparison.

I agree 100% (especially the bold text)!


-MERACE

I don't mind having some randomness on the drive and approach shot, provided the randomness factor reduces as your skill increases. Even in real golf, the better a player becomes, the more likely he is to land the ball close to where he is aiming it.

I would not want to see randomness on the green. If you did, you could end up hitting a dead straight and level put right at the hole only for it veer off before it gets there. There is enough randomness on the green already caused by changes in elevation.

MAIN.EAcom Golf Tim wrote:

ps3.jaybiv wrote:

MAIN.EAcom Golf Tim wrote:Oblong,

I favor 1 & 2, but I believe using more than one stick may be a bit much for most users. It did not work for ProStroke Golf and I fear it would turn users away from TW....but ideas 1&2 are very good.

How can you say using both sticks didn't work for Pro Stroke Golf? That game blew Tiger out of the water I forget what year it was made. I found it in a clearance bin and bought copies for several of my golf gaming friends. All but one, thought PSG was a better experience than Tiger. Tiger just had better graphics, presentation and roster of golfers.

The two analog swing is the best way to ensure some imperfections in the golf swing which should reduce the need for random manipulation of the swing data. Hole-outs in real golf are not rare, but they aren't every round occurences for even the best golfer on the planet.

I personally believe that improving the swing mechanics to create imperfect swings will solve the problem. Two analog sticks working in tandem is the easiest way to get there.

It failed miserably because it did not capture the casual user market. They targetted the simulation user and forgot about the casual user. Why do you think it is not being produced any longer? Never stated that it failed from a technical or gameplay perspective....

I beg to differ. PSG failed because it has European golfers that most Americans had never heard of. If Pro Stroke and Tiger were sitting side by side on the shelf, the average American is going to take Tiger Woods because of his name only.

Much like the EA/2K rivalry, PSG was technically the better golf simulator, but it didn't have the bells, whistles and sizzle that Tiger Woods brings to the table. Golf is a niche sport in America, and Tiger is one of probably two active golfers that most American will recognize. Just like All Pro Football failed because it didn't have the blessing of the NFL and the NFLPA.

Those are the facts my friend.

The actual golf swing should be everything in this game. Everything. Especially on tour pro level. Thats where IMO the developers need to spend the bulk of their time and effort. What we have now is so limited, so basic, there's nothing to it, its back and through with the stick with no feel built in, just the tiny little ball meter in the corner telling you how straight your swing plane was and unless you tune your clubs for more sensitivity, that stays straight most of the time anyway. We don't need randomness, we don't need the game deciding where the ball lands for you. We need some new technical innovation in the swing which could take this game to a new level. What do you think Mike?

cem_ea_id.holeinonesock wrote:The actual golf swing should be everything in this game. Everything. Especially on tour pro level. Thats where IMO the developers need to spend the bulk of their time and effort. What we have now is so limited, so basic, there's nothing to it, its back and through with the stick with no feel built in, just the tiny little ball meter in the corner telling you how straight your swing plane was and unless you tune your clubs for more sensitivity, that stays straight most of the time anyway. We don't need randomness, we don't need the game deciding where the ball lands for you. We need some new technical innovation in the swing which could take this game to a new level. What do you think Mike?

Until MS' Natal and the PS3's new motion controllers are out, EA will have to work with the current gamepad analog swing. I am hoping the new motion controllers can add a level of immersion and challenge to TW for consoles....

Fair comment Tim, but could they not just use what they've already got and develop a new analog swing mechanic similar to the new precision putter, that you use for all clubs and which wouldn't allow you to slowly stop and hold your backswing at the maximum point but would only work with a fluid tempo. Similar to prostroke golf, but much better. More sensitive.

cem_ea_id.holeinonesock wrote:Fair comment Tim, but could they not just use what they've already got and develop a new analog swing mechanic similar to the new precision putter, that you use for all clubs and which wouldn't allow you to slowly stop and hold your backswing at the maximum point but would only work with a fluid tempo.

And keep in mind that was already accomplished in Links 2004 on a last-gen console. Absolutely no reason this can't be incorporated into the game on next-gen systems, 5-6 years after the fact. The only thing preventing the TW developers from introducing a similar-style swing mechanic into the TW series is their continued decision not to. Not because of any game controller limitations, in other words.