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I want Sim City 5, not SIMCITY+OWS ACTIVISM  XML
SimCity  > General Discussion
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Joined: 08/08/2011 10:35:13
Messages: 5
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When I first heard that a new Sim City game was coming out, I was ecstatic. After reading a few articles, I'm feeling miserable. I don't know if others have covered this on the forum, but I'm a little worried about the developers attitude toward this game. Here is my take; let me throw a few quotes out here:

SimCity Returns as One Part Simulation, One Part Stump Speech
Whether or not you agree with the specific social politics baked into SimCity's design, you have to take satisfaction in seeing such a massive, popular, and well-loved franchise owning its politics and making a statement. It's the sign of a meaningful medium -- one that games demonstrate far too infrequently and inelegantly. – 1UP.com


SimCity Players Will Face Tough Choices on Energy and Environment
If the old SimCity could nurture a generation of urban planners, perhaps its newest rendition will inspire tomorrow's natural resource managers and environmental engineers, as well. – ClimateWire


SimCity is Back -- With Shades of Instagram and Occupy Wall Street
[...] a host of factors make the game seem a little more urgent, more relevant to our extreme economic times. And at the same time, the gameplay is easier to pick up than ever (no complicated tax spreadsheets required). Call it a game for the 99%. - Mashable


Am I alone when I say, I want SimCity 5: The Sequal, not SimCity: the political statement?

I want what they advertised SimCity 4 as:

Make massive cities in the most comprehensive SimCity™ ever!


Use your god-like powers to construct the most realistic metropolis you can imagine.


I want them to give me the product we waited 10 years for, not a "medium" for a company to "own its politics and make a statement."

The product we waited 10 years for was supposed to be centered around building big cities and regions in a realistic, complex way. Now, it seems, they have decided that the product we want is to be centered around bloated environmental issues so mothers can play with their children and have a discussion about OWS and global warming.




Joined: 08/08/2011 10:35:13
Messages: 5
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OOPS, looks like someone had already made a discussion about this. Nevertheless, this might be helpful to the discussion. I would merge mine into the other but I can't figure out how....


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 04/14/2012 13:15:50





Joined: 03/29/2012 16:31:57
Messages: 8
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I'm not sure what you're worried about. This random banter from a couple of nobody bloggers shouldn't sour your opinion of a game that hasn't even gone to beta yet. With the sparse ammount of information available, no one can for sure say how this game is going to turn out. All I've seen so far is everyone's opinionated take on the few glassbox demonstration videos. People will see what they want to see. Don't be a sheep, make up your own mind on the information and facts that the developer has provided.




Joined: 08/08/2011 10:35:13
Messages: 5
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If the first videos they produce keep centering around the environment, and every interview is about using clean energy, there is indeed a perception that they could go overboard with it. I don't want them to. I'm fine with depleting resources; it is a wonderful concept to add. But I don't want the game to turn into a political statement. Perception can be reality.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 04/14/2012 13:30:48




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Joined: 09/23/2010 01:50:13
Messages: 90
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Australia
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You had all that stuff in the past Sim City games. But this time around, like with every new Sim City game, it is just simulated better. In the last Sim City, SC4, you had environment issues, health issues, protests with people you had to please and so on.

Efficiency & Effectiveness. Honest & Modest. To the new beyonds.



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Joined: 03/20/2012 05:27:30
Messages: 111
Location: United States of America
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Honestly, I think you should wait to make a decision on the game until a beta or the finalized version is released to the public. If it's not a good game, we'll all just move back to SimCity 4. I know that's what a lot of SimCity fans are planning on doing.

I hope you guys are ready for SimCity Societies 2: MMO Edition!!

If only a good company like Valve owned the Maxis franchise, I doubt anyone would be complaining then.
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Joined: 03/20/2012 20:37:55
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[quote=Skuhc]Honestly, I think you should wait to make a decision on the game until a beta or the finalized version is released to the public. If it's not a good game, we'll all just move back to SimCity 4. I know that's what a lot of SimCity fans are planning on doing.[/quote]

Quite right.

We don't have to buy it if we don't like it. We can wait for the next Anno, Cities XL, CiM, Civ or whatever that's actually designed with single player in mind.. the people with the money to buy the game. If Maxis likes it it must be worth its weight in gold.

SimCity 2013 = Like throwing your time and money into a fire.. the up side being EA has your money so you know it is being wasted

I'm more annoyed losing a year on this forum in the stupid pursuit of a game worth the name SimCity than losing $60+ to EA




Joined: 03/06/2012 20:55:17
Messages: 49
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I agree. I don't why people in the entertainment industry think their customers care about their goofy politics. Look we get it OK? We just don't care, now shut up and sing, or act, or program or whatever.



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Joined: 03/20/2012 13:44:36
Messages: 25
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I don't see the issue with Simcity recognizing the problems that plague todays society. Literature is often a narrative of the times it's written in. Why shouldn't games be that as well? Games with feeling that evoke emotion. Games that say this is messed up, think about it.

The Occupy movement recognizes the problem of money corrupting governments small and large. I would like to see a city sim address how the local government deals with corporations and banks. The corruption that forms within.

Environmental awareness is a pretty serious issue today that needs to be addressed. It is something that youth today is made more aware of then times before.

Many people have stated they've gone into their career path because of former Maxis games. I think for Maxis to take their influence and address financial influence over government, and responsible environmental consideration is a good thing.

That's not to say I want the game to focus only on those subjects, but to include it I think is a good thing. I also think it could lead to an added layer of depth.

Before I go:
-A bank won't come into your city because of certain laws. If they come, they bring wealth. If they come it could hurt the lower class communities because of the laws and incentives they want. Stuff like this could bring morality into the game.

I test every boundary put before me. It's in my nature, I do not consider it a personality flaw. Me being stubborn, that's a flaw... if you like to fail.



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Joined: 03/20/2012 13:44:36
Messages: 25
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[quote=Midessan]I agree. I don't why people in the entertainment industry think their customers care about their goofy politics. Look we get it OK? We just don't care, now shut up and sing, or act, or program or whatever.[/quote]

No, you don't care. The entertainment industry can push political agendas. They can influence people in what beliefs they hold on to, or the goals they chase. Even what stereotypes they adopt.

I'm not one to say the industry is responsible for individual behavior. Parents should be teaching their kids right from wrong and instilling good moral fibers. The industry however, should act responsibly when it comes to certain things.

Environmental and financial decisions are cause and effect, and should be reflected responsibly in simulations. Yea, its a game, but it still affects worldviews for those who get immersed in it. You can't tell me a game or movie never changed a view you held.

Take Herman Canes tax plain, some think he got it from Simcity...

I think Maxis is addressing whats important to them in today's world.

I test every boundary put before me. It's in my nature, I do not consider it a personality flaw. Me being stubborn, that's a flaw... if you like to fail.



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Joined: 04/01/2012 02:16:02
Messages: 367
Location: Bellingham, WA
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Environment is a trade-off, and Stuff Always Changes. I have to laugh where BP was getting their logo for 'Clean Energy' in SC: S, and people made a big stink over that. None of the 'clean energy image' survived the Gulf Oil Spill. Coal puts out far more radioactive pollutants than nuclear energy, but nuclear power is doomed since Fukushima. True 'renewable energy' is not only way WAY more expensive in one form or another over fossil fuel, it is also destructive to the environment, just in different ways.

There ARE NO cheap, easy answers on energy. SimCity:MMO should reflect that. SimCity:MMO *also* will likely not have a 'tech tree' like Civilization, or if it did, it will be VERY interesting in a real world server situation like an MMO. How does EA/ Maxis intend to introduce non-existant 'cheap easy' green tech that does not exist yet, and may never exist?

What's the greater fear... that too many people will use the 'cheap easy' fossil fuel that destroys the 'world server' we all have to use? Or *NOT ENOUGH* people provide the energy *and the money* to create those expensive so-called 'green' alternative energy sources so the rest of us can have our power and money to buy the 'green' power we need to not end up screwing up the world server anyway?

There are no easy answers. There are no good solutions. Except for the ability to play god on your own computer in solo, or enjoy the game by LAN and make up your own rules without inviting the wrath of the EA/ Maxis Gods for 'cheating' on your region.

If SC:MMO were going to be 'realistic' about economics or energy, the game would be a horribly complex PITA that nobody in their right mind would have anything to do with it. Maxis will *HAVE* to *CHEAT* if they are going to create a game people will play, and by 'cheat' I mean "hand-wave away the nightmare PITA that real life is when nations go to war and people set themselves on fire over this stuff."

The degree to which Maxis "hand waves away" the grievous real life PITA energy and economic policy away is the extent to which they will have to inject their real life personal political philosophy into the game. I simply don't see any other way around it.

I don't play CXL to model 'real life' so much as to enjoy a train modeling set without the space and hassle of a plywood board, green felt & a train set. I have no idea of the politics of my CXL sims; they do what I tell them to do or I break out the Cheat Mod Hammer and they *WILL* do what I tell them to do. That's just how I enjoy the game.

That's how I would *PREFER* to enjoy SimCity 5, but the notion of having it be an MMO precludes the use of the Cheat Mod Hammer.

The Cheat Mod Hammer does tend to sour the social aspects of "good sportsmanship" in a social game, but it *does* make all the political annoyances go away.
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Joined: 03/24/2012 17:20:55
Messages: 369
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I'm okay with cause and effect for social policies.

For example, environmental policies causing lower results but costing more.

Take Ethanol, for example. Higher cost to make, generates less energy than its manufacture requires, and causes the consumer to pay more in support of the makers as well as reduced life expectancy of consumer products.

Or windmills that don't produce on calm days and kill birds on windy days while producing significant levels of noise pollution.

Or solar panels that cost more to manufacture, take a long time to reach break-even, can be damaged by bad weather, and which can't easily/cheaply replaced, recycled, etc.

If you're going to simulate something, be sure to get all of the inputs, outputs, and processes RIGHT. Otherwise, please don't bother.



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Joined: 04/01/2012 02:16:02
Messages: 367
Location: Bellingham, WA
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Yeah. I'm with you. If you are going to introduce this, yes do keep it 'relatively simple', just not entirely *STUPID*. And don't do 'fantasy Green' where if you'll only allow windmills that somehow do NOT kill birds, solar that somehow does NOT have environmental toxins in the manufacture, and ethanol that does NOT drive food prices crazy, and so on, and so forth... then don't bother. If everything was so simple as the "green nuts" claimed, we'd all be doing it. We didn't get a hybrid car because WE CAN NOT FREAKIN' AFFORD to do so. What we do instead is live relatively close to work. In theory, we could walk, but we are pushing between 45 and 55 years old, work nights, and so on. So we do what we can, and we do what we have freedom to choose to do.

So yeah, show the benefits of 'green sanity', just don't be stupid and do *NOT* 'lie' about making a so-called 'green city' with zero side-effects.
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Joined: 03/07/2012 01:35:26
Messages: 339
Location: Puget Sound Area
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As long as the "green agenda" is less than 3/4 that of Anno 2070, I will be ecstatic!

Always try your best.



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Joined: 04/01/2012 02:16:02
Messages: 367
Location: Bellingham, WA
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I don't have Anno 2070, I never really looked into it. It looks like nice eye-candy, but so far nobody has told me it's a good update of SC4, so I've not bothered.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 04/26/2012 17:07:33


"I'm sure EA is very successful at monetizing games, but the more we don't do what they would do, the happier I am" --Notch

"Free men choose. Unfree men comply." John T. Reed

File this one under, "If the shoe fits..."
http://youtu.be/e-LE0ycgkBQ
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