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2.0 No Money bug - are people seeing it in newly created regions?  XML
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Joined: 03/25/2013 16:10:25
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Ok, so I'm seeing the money bug in my existing region since 2.0 debuted; it's annoying, to say the least, but I've read enough here and on other forums to believe it's actually a fix that's exposing one of the engine's worst weaknesses, pathfinding.

I suppose there's hope they'll fix that, soon, in a subsequent patch. (Not. Holding. My. Breath.)

In any case, I also wonder whether this might be a function of the patch trying to make sense out of cities built under the old version.

Is it possible that in newly created regions, the patch is working better with this?
Was going to start a new region for the patch, anyway, but just want to know what I'm getting into.. lol..




Joined: 01/24/2013 19:41:38
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I've been seeing this bug since launch, 2.0 may have made it worse but it's hardly a new issue.



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Joined: 02/28/2011 07:16:43
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Location: The Lone Star State
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I abandoned all of my old regions patch day. I can confirm that I have not had any money issues since patch day.

Dovie'andi se tovya sagain "It's time to roll the dice"

Kiserai ti wansho " Glory to the Builders"

Yes, I did fail English class.




Joined: 04/16/2013 11:40:47
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With small population you wont see the "no money" $ issue or the "no shopping" $$ issue. As density increases you will. It is a path finding bug made much more evident as density increase, and worsens when you place mass transit, even though it improves apparent traffic.

It is caused by $ buildings that never get any workers returned to them because workers are stuck in transit loop, or return to other buildings only based on path finding issues. Same issue with shoppers never returning to $$ buildings causing where is shopping bug. If you demolish that city, that is not getting returning workers/shopper, it will get the same problem back when rebuilt. It is a bug caused by the each worker returning to closes building, then next and so on...in other words the failing building is tagged in last place, and is doomed.

Start a new city, it will go away. As density increases, it will occur. The amount will depend on luck of random pathfinding issues, or quirks of your particular build. While you can design to reduce the bug, no way to eliminate.

All they say is they realize it is bugged and working on it, no clue if they can fix it without reengineering the game, so who knows when it will get fixed.

But that was not even attempted to be fixed in 2.0, as it apparently not an easy fix...or attempted fixes then cause even worse issues.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 04/24/2013 09:19:25





Joined: 10/28/2011 23:04:54
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It's only when there's not enough to go around that being last in line matters. That doesn't exactly make it impossible to avoid. With the population details report being wrong it's damn hard to balance a full city. With traffic/transportation problems causing workers to give up and go home without a salary it's also difficult. The location dooms the building only applies when there isn't enough to go around. It isn't just the closest building, but the closest with open slots for workers. So if all workers are working then, eventually, the furthest building is the only building with open slots for them to return to.




Joined: 03/25/2013 16:10:25
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me3rge wrote: It is a path finding bug made much more evident as density increase, and worsens when you place mass transit, even though it improves apparent traffic.




Thanks for the reply. I'm curious about this statement though.
Why does mass transit make it worse?

I realize this wasn't something they were attempting to fix with 2.0; it does seem, however, that post-2.0, at least in my existing cities, something else was changed that made this problem more pronounced.

It seems, from some other responses, that maybe new regions are not experiencing this issue as badly. I'm going to try that out soon and see..





Joined: 01/24/2013 19:41:38
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equineleopard79 wrote:
me3rge wrote: It is a path finding bug made much more evident as density increase, and worsens when you place mass transit, even though it improves apparent traffic.




Thanks for the reply. I'm curious about this statement though.
Why does mass transit make it worse?





Because the agents can take too long to get to a sink when they use transit. They either sit forever is the stops or they catch a ride but get dropped off somewhere with no sinks with available space nearby and end up lining up at a stop all over again. The transit is pretty stupid about where to drop them off, it's only real virtue is that it does get cars off the roads.




Joined: 04/16/2013 11:40:47
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cwg9 wrote:
equineleopard79 wrote:
me3rge wrote: It is a path finding bug made much more evident as density increase, and worsens when you place mass transit, even though it improves apparent traffic.




Thanks for the reply. I'm curious about this statement though.
Why does mass transit make it worse?





Because the agents can take too long to get to a sink when they use transit. They either sit forever is the stops or they catch a ride but get dropped off somewhere with no sinks with available space nearby and end up lining up at a stop all over again. The transit is pretty stupid about where to drop them off, it's only real virtue is that it does get cars off the roads.


Exactly. and some resident workers looking for work, get dropped back off at residential again, ie loop bug they are trying to sort, and run back to their stop, and repeat.




Joined: 03/05/2013 20:55:20
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I'm glad people are more aware of the poor method in which agents return to sinks, which causes all these problems of building going abandoned.

I have made a thread which can be found through my sig. Please continue spreading the word and hope that the devs improve it.




Joined: 04/16/2013 11:40:47
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LilBudyWizer wrote:It's only when there's not enough to go around that being last in line matters.


correct, but what usually causes not enough to go around is not an overall imbalance, it is when workers never make it to work or never make it back to a res , or shoppers never return, getting stuck, abandoning early, both cause issues. Or the teleporting to nowhere from a park.

You will see a single worker, change his intended location multiple times, then give up, even though still room for him at x location. But because there is a time limit for him to return, and he goes to house 1 first, oops now full, on to house 2, oops full, on to 3...um out of time, screw it, goes into park teleports to nowhere. demolish building without shoppers or money, and repeat exact same cycle. sometimes if demolish r and replace with c, fixes that one building, only to cause issue in another.

One fix would be syncing worker with same job, then when he had a problem, you could fix it. Now it is randomness and luck. I made it to 820K pop with few issues (though I demolished non working res and built C in place and vice versa... only to rebuild same city later and it was a disaster.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 04/24/2013 10:27:10





Joined: 03/25/2013 16:10:25
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One thing I wonder is if maybe the game is just too exacting in the way it calculates some of these things..

Maybe they should lengthen the time a worker has to find work and get paid, or lengthen the time they have before they need money for rent..

The pathfinding strikes me as insurmountably complicated; so many sims going to so many places. It would take a major re-engineering to sort all that out, i think.. but if you just gave sims more time to accomplish what they're trying to do, along with some fixes to the confounding loops, it might eliminate this problem for all practical purposes..




Joined: 03/06/2013 13:14:15
Messages: 357
Location: Gainesville, FL
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equineleopard79 wrote:One thing I wonder is if maybe the game is just too exacting in the way it calculates some of these things..

Maybe they should lengthen the time a worker has to find work and get paid, or lengthen the time they have before they need money for rent..

The pathfinding strikes me as insurmountably complicated; so many sims going to so many places. It would take a major re-engineering to sort all that out, i think.. but if you just gave sims more time to accomplish what they're trying to do, along with some fixes to the confounding loops, it might eliminate this problem for all practical purposes..


There's no easy fix to this problem, you shouldn't even waste your time trying to think of one. As you say, the only fix to the game is to do a "major re-engineering". And PC games don't get a major re-engineering. They get abandoned and then rebooted with new engines several years down the line.



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Joined: 08/30/2010 09:26:03
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I just found that this is not a bug !

I found strict corelation between buildings with "no money" problem and lack of education. Simply compare layer that shows sims' money with education layer. Improve schools (more school bus stops and more school buses) and the problem is gone !




Joined: 03/06/2013 13:14:15
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Location: Gainesville, FL
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kotonek wrote:I just found that this is not a bug !

I found strict corelation between buildings with "no money" problem and lack of education. Simply compare layer that shows sims' money with education layer. Improve schools (more school bus stops and more school buses) and the problem is gone !


This is not true. I have cities with very high education levels and all of my buildings, educated or not are prone to this happening.




Joined: 04/10/2013 02:40:04
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kotonek wrote:I just found that this is not a bug !


It is.

I have evenly spaced C and R building, 100% school attendance, and Mass transit for 30k+ pop. If i still get 16-25 abandoned buildings every 4 days (game time) due to "out of money", then there's definitely something wrong with the patch.

I never had to clear so many abandoned bldgs pre 2.0 after playing nearly 140 hours.
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